Subject: Re:More on WA Bill Allowing Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays
Just one other thought. As an Agnostic, contracting with the State of Washington, I am not able to declare that I will refuse to serve anyone who holds religious beliefs. Of course the first thing is that it would eliminate most of our clients. But more to the point, the contract I sign each year requires me to provide certain services to all qualified persons requesting those services.
If, for some really odd reason, I am unwilling to honor my contract, I am dismissed.
Here's a question someone who supports Senator Brown's bill might answer.
Do you check everyone you come into contact with to be certain you are only associating with Christians? Do you ask the waitress or waiter in a restaurant whether they are Christian, or Gay, before you order from them? When you board the public transit, do you question the driver to be certain that a Christian is driving?
What about the clothes you wear? Were they made by Christian workers?
When you trade in your car, do you stipulate that it cannot be resold to certain people?
It's all very confusing.
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----From: ted chittendenSent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:20 AMSubject: Re: WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against GaysMike and all:
The idea of "My business, my rules" applies not only to gays, but just about everything else. Why do you think that Chambers of Commerce all over the country rail against issues such as forcing businesses to make their websites accessible to all, including the blind? Why do you think that Chambers of Commerce around the country oppose many of the Great Society programs put on the books by President Johnson, let alone various portions of the New Deal, including minimum wage laws, the Fair Labor Standards Act, and the Randolph-Sheppard Vending Act? Why do Chambers of Commerce around the country oppose the union movement?
Yes, big corporations don't want these things--it gets in the way of profits being doled out in executive salaries and stockholder dividends. But small businesses don't want them, either. Unlike the larger companies, they usually cannot afford the requirements the laws place on them. *but* more importantly, people who own small businesses (some of whom may wind up owning large corporations) view these businesses as their fifedoms where what they say goes! And these people view laws, including anti-discrimination laws, as infringing upon their rights to do with their businesses as they please.
And, just so that anyone doesn't get the wrong idea, I most certainly do *not* agree with these people. There is plenty of both present and historical documentation of how destructive and short-sighted most of their ideas are. However, as I have indicated before on this list, people react to things based upon their emotions, not upon what the facts and evidence actually indicate.
--
Ted Chittenden
Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Mike Edwards <mike@ultraemail.us> wrote:
I got into a Facebook debate about this via komo news, our local ABC
afiliate. I can't believe how many supporters it had. "my business, my
rules!" Sounded like 1958 alabama, I would imagine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Vieni" <miriamvieni@optonline.net>
To: "'Blind Democracy Discussion List'" <blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:18 PM
Subject: WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays
> Content preview: Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) WA Bill
> Would
> Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays Think Progress /
> By
> Zack Ford [1] WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate
> Against
> Gays April 26, 2013 | Republicans in Washington state have proposed a
> bill
> that would allow businesses to openly discriminate [2] against people
> based
> on their sexual orientation if they want to do so because of their
> religious
> beliefs. SB 5927 [3]carves out a specific exception to the state's
> nondiscrimination
> law that says only federal protections - which don't include sexual
> orientation
> - apply when a person's religious belief is "burdened": Nothing in this
> section
> may burden a person or religious organization's freedom of religion
> including,
> but not limited to, the right of an individual or entity to deny
> services
> if providing those goods or services would be contrary to the
> individual's
> or entity owner's sincerely held religious beliefs, philosophical
> beliefs,
> or matters of conscience. This subsection does not apply to the denial
> of
> services to individuals recognized as a protected class under federal
> law
> applicable to the state as of the effective date of this section. The
> right
> to act or refuse to act in a manner motivated by a sincerely held
> religious
> belief, philosophical belief, or matter of conscience may not be
> burdened
> unless the government proves that it has a compelling governmental
> interest
> in infringing the specific act or refusal to act and has used the least
> restrictive
> means to further that interest. Unsurprisingly, the bill's sponsor is
> state
> Sen. Sharon Brown (R), whose district is home to Arlene's Flowers, a
> business
> facing two lawsuits [4] because it refused to provide flowers [5] for a
> same-sex
> wedding. Conservatives have claimed that the nondiscrimination
> protections
> Arelene's violated are tantamount to Nazi homofascism [6], a sentiment
> Brown
> seemed to echo by claiming, "There's a glaring lack of protection for
> religion
> in state law." See more stories tagged with: washington [7], bill [8],
> sb
> 5927 [9], discrimination [10] Source URL: [...]
>
> Content analysis details: (-4.3 points, 5.0 required)
>
> pts rule name description
> ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
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>
> Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org)
> WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays
> ________________________________________
> Think Progress / By Zack Ford [1]
>
> WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays
> April 26, 2013 |
> Republicans in Washington state have proposed a bill that would allow
> businesses to openly discriminate [2] against people based on their sexual
> orientation if they want to do so because of their religious beliefs. SB
> 5927 [3]carves out a specific exception to the state's nondiscrimination
> law
> that says only federal protections - which don't include sexual
> orientation
> - apply when a person's religious belief is "burdened":
> Nothing in this section may burden a person or religious organization's
> freedom of religion including, but not limited to, the right of an
> individual or entity to deny services if providing those goods or services
> would be contrary to the individual's or entity owner's sincerely held
> religious beliefs, philosophical beliefs, or matters of conscience. This
> subsection does not apply to the denial of services to individuals
> recognized as a protected class under federal law applicable to the state
> as
> of the effective date of this section. The right to act or refuse to act
> in
> a manner motivated by a sincerely held religious belief, philosophical
> belief, or matter of conscience may not be burdened unless the government
> proves that it has a compelling governmental interest in infringing the
> specific act or refusal to act and has used the least restrictive means to
> further that interest.
> Unsurprisingly, the bill's sponsor is state Sen. Sharon Brown (R), whose
> district is home to Arlene's Flowers, a business facing two lawsuits [4]
> because it refused to provide flowers [5] for a same-sex wedding.
> Conservatives have claimed that the nondiscrimination protections
> Arelene's
> violated are tantamount to Nazi homofascism [6], a sentiment Brown seemed
> to
> echo by claiming, "There's a glaring lack of protection for religion in
> state law."
> See more stories tagged with:
> washington [7],
> bill [8],
> sb 5927 [9],
> discrimination [10]
> ________________________________________
> Source URL:
> http://www.alternet.org/wa-bill-would-allow-businesses-openly-discriminate-a
> gainst-gays
> Links:
> [1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zack-ford-0
> [2]
> http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/25/2573106/bill-seeks-exemption-to-non
> -discrimination.html
> [3]
> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5927&year=2013#documen
> ts
> [4]
> http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/11/1854831/washington-florist-faces-se
> cond-suit-unless-she-donates-to-an-lgbt-organization/
> [5]
> http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/10/1844611/washington-attorney-general
> -sues-florist-for-anti-gay-discrimination/
> [6]
> http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/16/1872791/conservatives-claim-discrim
> inating-florist-is-victim-of-gay-nazism/
> [7] http://www.alternet.org/tags/washington-0
> [8] http://www.alternet.org/tags/bill
> [9] http://www.alternet.org/tags/sb-5927
> [10] http://www.alternet.org/tags/discrimination-0
> [11] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
>
> Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org)
> Home > WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays
>
> Think Progress / By Zack Ford [1]
> WA Bill Would Allow Businesses to Openly Discriminate Against Gays
> April 26, 2013 |
> Republicans in Washington state have proposed a bill that would allow
> businesses to openly discriminate [2] against people based on their sexual
> orientation if they want to do so because of their religious beliefs. SB
> 5927 [3]carves out a specific exception to the state's nondiscrimination
> law
> that says only federal protections - which don't include sexual
> orientation
> - apply when a person's religious belief is "burdened":
> Nothing in this section may burden a person or religious organization's
> freedom of religion including, but not limited to, the right of an
> individual or entity to deny services if providing those goods or services
> would be contrary to the individual's or entity owner's sincerely held
> religious beliefs, philosophical beliefs, or matters of conscience. This
> subsection does not apply to the denial of services to individuals
> recognized as a protected class under federal law applicable to the state
> as
> of the effective date of this section. The right to act or refuse to act
> in
> a manner motivated by a sincerely held religious belief, philosophical
> belief, or matter of conscience may not be burdened unless the government
> proves that it has a compelling governmental interest in infringing the
> specific act or refusal to act and has used the least restrictive means to
> further that interest.
> Unsurprisingly, the bill's sponsor is state Sen. Sharon Brown (R), whose
> district is home to Arlene's Flowers, a business facing two lawsuits [4]
> because it refused to provide flowers [5] for a same-sex wedding.
> Conservatives have claimed that the nondiscrimination protections
> Arelene's
> violated are tantamount to Nazi homofascism [6], a sentiment Brown seemed
> to
> echo by claiming, "There's a glaring lack of protection for religion in
> state law."
> See more stories tagged with:
> washington [7],
> bill [8],
> sb 5927 [9],
> discrimination [10]
>
> Source URL:
> http://www.alternet.org/wa-bill-would-allow-businesses-openly-discriminate-a
> gainst-gays
> Links:
> [1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zack-ford-0
> [2]
> http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/25/2573106/bill-seeks-exemption-to-non
> -discrimination.html
> [3]
> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5927&year=2013#documen
> ts
> [4]
> http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/11/1854831/washington-florist-faces-se
> cond-suit-unless-she-donates-to-an-lgbt-organization/
> [5]
> http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/10/1844611/washington-attorney-general
> -sues-florist-for-anti-gay-discrimination/
> [6]
> http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/16/1872791/conservatives-claim-discrim
> inating-florist-is-victim-of-gay-nazism/
> [7] http://www.alternet.org/tags/washington-0
> [8] http://www.alternet.org/tags/bill
> [9] http://www.alternet.org/tags/sb-5927
> [10] http://www.alternet.org/tags/discrimination-0
> [11] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blind-Democracy mailing list
> Blind-Democracy@octothorp.org
> http://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy
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