A poor person is poor because he/she has been ground into the dirt.
Often coming from generations of folks ground down and barren of hope.
As I said before, I was once a young man with no money in my pockets. But I
was never poor.
I remember my first wife's mother asking me if I carried any emergency money
on me. "Don't you have even five dollars for emergency use?" she asked.
"If I had five dollars, it would have been spent on five different
emergencies," I told her. But my wife and I lived in hope. Hope of a
better life, a better job, a door opening through which we might pass into a
Land of Plenty.
And we knew that the only way this could happen would be through our own
labor. My wife worked in the drapery factory folding and packing drapes. I
worked in the same factory, moving along to become assistant production
manager, earning a decent wage.
We had gathered some of the "middle class" trapping, and life was settling
into a pleasant routine. then I became totally blind and we were thrust
back into near poverty.
But even then I looked at it as a simple set back. We took in children, and
forgot to report our earnings. I went back to college at the expense of the
Tax Payers and the Department of Services for the Blind. I sold Fuller
Brush during my evening hours, and on weekends. Never did I think of myself
as poor. Never did I envy my neighbors who had more in the way of material
wealth. We had what we had, and we made due. And because we were not green
with envy, we enjoyed life and our friends.
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
From: "ted chittenden" <tchittenden@cox.net>
To: "Blind Democracy Discussion List" <blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: I do have a question:
Carl and all:
A poor person is poor because he/she lacks money, and it is a struggle to
get more, period. One might wish to refresh him- or herself by reading (or
rereading) Michael Harrington's book "The Other America,", especially the
first chapter where Mr. Harrington discusses how the poor in the U.S. are
really invisible because they outwardly behave like the wealthy. And, if you
stop and think about it, what other real choices do they have.
--
Ted Chittenden
Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
Miriam, Ted, Stbon and all who wonder what poor is all about,
Isn't it interesting that we go directly to identifying poor people by what
they own? "...a refrigerator, a car, several TV's, a cell phone."
But is that really the measure of the average poor person?
When my first wife and I married in 1960, we rented the made-over upstairs
of an older home in Ballard. We had an old radio, a two party telephone, a
collection of mostly used furniture, and enough clothing to almost fill a
small closet.
But neither Judy or I thought of ourselves as poor. We were "a struggling
young couple". We had no car, taking the bus wherever we needed to go. We
both worked at low paying jobs and saved for several months in order to buy
a 19 inch black and white TV.
Back then I knew what poor people were. It was not based on what they had,
which was usually very little. It was based on the fact that they were cut
off from any hope of advancing economically. They were Black, Indian and
people who had dropped out of school early on. They lived in the slums.
And yet, many of them had far more in the way of material possessions than
Judy and I. Early on I could see colored TV's in living rooms, with decent
trucks or cars parked out front.
But there was never any hope for a brighter future in those houses and
apartments. Folks who came from long lines of poor, disenfranchised people.
The girls got pregnant young and had babies. The boys got drunk often and
made babies.
There is a great deal that goes into the making of a poor person, but
possessions or lack of possessions is not part of it.
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stbon Qofa" <stbonqofa@yahoo.com>
To: "Blind Democracy Discussion List" <blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: I do have a question:
The average poor person, Miriam, has a refrigerator, a car, several TV's, a
cell phone. Our economic system which leads to new technology benefits more
than the upper class.
________________________________
From: Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net>
To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List' <blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: I do have a question:
Ted,
I think that the kind of jobs that are available, are those that benefit the
Capitalist class, not the ones that benefit Society. And I think that our
economic system should be benefiting society, and that means people like
you, not the ruling class. What happens in the market should be subservient
to the needs of people. The market isn't some detached, mechanistic god to
be worshipped.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of ted chittenden
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 10:39 AM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: RE: I do have a question:
Frank:
Daniel makes a very good point. The kinds of jobs that are available (and
this includes jobs for the sighted as well as for the blind) are determined
more by the needs of society than by personal interest. Few people recognize
this, but it is quite true.
--
Ted Chittenden
Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@littlebreezes.com> wrote:
Dave, this is very timely. I had lunch with one of my wife's friends
yesterday. She is the daughter of the founder of P&E electronics, a very
successful electronics firm in Watertown that was founded with a lot of
federal grant money. The company is incorporated in the cayman islands and
pays no federal taxes. As the daughter of the founder she is now a partner
and takes home a 7 figure salary. OK, I digress here. She mentioned that for
some of their manufacturing they use a sheltered workshop in western MA. She
very purposely didn't tell me which workship, but I will make sure to find
out. So they use this sheltered workshop because it costs them, as she put
it, practically nothing. As with many sheltered workshops the employees are
being paid a fraction on minimum wage, which she insists must be lowered or
abolished as she hates the idea of a minimum wage. The folks that work there
either live in state funded group homes or live with family members who are
receiving state !
PCA subsidies. So what miss "no government, government is bad, no taxes for
the wealthy" doesn't say is that her 7 figure a year salary is supported by
lots of socialism, public funds paid by working class tax payers, and
exploited PWDs. As usual it takes a lot of socialism to make capitalism a
success.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind exchange and discussion [mailto:BLIND-X@LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG] On
Behalf Of daniel gobeil
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 7:52 AM
To: BLIND-X@LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG
Subject: Re: I do have a question:
Bravo!, here here!
Boy, you hit the nail right on the head.
Ya know, I have heard my whole life, "you can be anything you want to be".
I'm sorry to say, though I wish it were otherwise, my life experience shows
me it just ain't so.
I have worked off and on at various small jobs, and by and large, I get the
distinct impression that the average sighted person feels extremely
threatened by a blind person who is not bumbling around and constantly
needing help and doing things as well under the circumstances as their
sighted peers.
I remember my first job.
In the little town where I grew up,at the age of seventeen or so, during the
summer I wanted to get a job to earn some spending money.
I asked the guy who ran our local ford dealership if he had anything I could
do part time.
I figured maybe I could wash cars or something.
Well, a couple weeks later, he called us and said he had a job for me.
When I found what it was I was very disappointed, because it was at the
local sheltered workshop, with a bunch of retarded folks.
I determined to stick it out though and started in working.
what they had us doing was, taking metal brackets and attaching little
prewired lamp sockets to them.
These things were eventualy meant to go in to bug zappers.
We were doing this at piece work rates, and I figured, well, I'll just
figure out a system so I can make as much as I can, it was money after all.
Imagine my shock and surprise when the supervisor of the place comes to me
and says; You've got to slow down, you're making everyone else look bad.
Well, that's when I discovered that despite what they tell you, it doesn't
pay to do your best, and it matters more what folks think you are than what
you actualy do.
another incident happened during that same job.
there was a very mildly retarded young man who could drive and had his own
VW, and he and I arranged for him to pick me up and take me home each day as
this was about five miles away in the next town from us.
when my mother found out, she told me, you've gotta pay him something for
his gas, which I thought was absolutely fair.
I arranged to pay him a couple dollars a week for the expense of the fuel.
this was in the late sixties, and gas was relatively cheap then.
Well, next day, the supervisor comes to me and says, you can't pay him any
money, he's being payed for that.
I told him it was my mother's idea and he, the guy who was driving me hadn't
asked me for money, that I and my mom had simply figured it was the right
thing to do.
well, you'd have thought I'd committed a mortal sin by giving that poor guy
a dollar for his gas.
the supervisor told me never to do that again as if I had done something
terrible, and to this day, I don't know how they found out that I'd payed
him a buck for driving me to work and back.
needlesstosay, I was pretty glad to quit there at the end of the summer, and
I never even considered ever working at a sheltered workshop as a client
again.
I can tell you that left a terrible taste in my mouth when I found out that
trying hard or showing the least consideration for someone was treated as
something blameworthy.
since then I look at a lot of the well intentioned things many people do
"for" us and can't help wondering whether there is some kind of alterior
motive there.
there is an expression in spanish, " apocomiento", it means to make things
small,as when they referr to a blind person as "ciegito" rather than
"ciego", which means blind.
We don't do that up here, but so many times, there is this undertone in
personal interaction that feels very much the same way.
I will admit, it seems to have gotten less over the years, but with the
economy the way it is, it wouldn't surprise me if we see it come back with a
vengeance.
Regards; Daniel gobeil
At 04:38 PM 12/28/2013 -0500, you wrote:
>Dave,
>I don't know why we have to struggle so mightily with the issue as to
>whether blindness is a handicap or disability. Since it effects a very
>small portion of the human race, it by definition is an abnormality.
>The public fears it more than cancer or deafness. The crowd defines
>what is OK, and the crowd generally finds blindness to be not OK and
>has incorporated it into their world by calling it a disability. We can
>tell ourselves that we don't have a disability, but to do so is to
>ignore the reality of the power and importance of what the public believes.
>
>Personally, I feel more handicapped by society's beliefs and
>assumptions about blindness than I do about my lack of sight. When I
>used to say that in public, I got the sense that there was a collective
"Aw" from the audience.
>It was like I was so brave and I was trying to minimize what they knew
>were insurmountable troubles by saying that they weren't as bad as the
>tiny bit of unkindness that the audience figured other people might
>occasionally inflict upon me.
>
>I don't say that anymore. The truth for me is almost the opposite of
>how the sighted world perceives it. It's like; hey, learning to do
>things nonvisually is a major life change and to get it right takes an
>enormous output of energy, imagination and willingness to view life
>from a perspective that most others don't share. But, as difficult as
>that may be, it can't hold a candle to dealing with the thousands of
>ways that prejudice rears its ugly head. You may find learning Braille
>difficult, but once you learn it, you know it. On the other hand, there's
no end to the stigma.
>Dealing with the resulting feelings of frustration, humiliation, anger
>and despair that become a regular part of your life is the challenge.
>It's a challenge that doesn't go away because , although things are
>changing, there is a deep root in the public that supports the idea
>that blindness is not acceptable. If you're going to go out into the
>world, you will encounter the fruits of that root, whether it's in
>terms of getting a job, being valued for who you are beyond your sight
>or whatever. People will pity you; people will admire you because you
>tied your own shoes and ignore your academic accomplishments; people
>will be angry that you are standing in the way of them just having a
>good time; people will take advantage of you, because they perceive you as
weak.
>
>It's not everyone, and it may not even be most people, but it happens
>over and over and over. And to survive, you need to embrace the
>assumption that it isn't necessarily going to happen today. Who are the
>available role models for dealing with those realities? Who can teach
>us the mechanics of what is going on and prepare us to flourish despite it?
>Donna
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