Fwd: [acb-chat] [ACB-chat] Intelligent choices....

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Jarvis via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2017 04:17:10 +0000
Subject: Re: [acb-chat] [ACB-chat] Intelligent choices....
To: "General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or
whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion
list." <acb-chat@acblists.org>
Cc: Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com>

Well said Abby,
For some reason I just can't get this subject out of my head. Maybe
it has something to do with having two sisters, and living at a time
when girls were literally second class. The things I and my buddies
could do? No girl would have been able to show her face if she dared
copy us. We drank. We screwed(pardon the expression, but it's what
we did, with impunity", we stayed out all night, too. And when I
married in 1960, my wife had to have my permission in order to buy
anything other than groceries. In those good old days, when America
was "truly great", back in the time Donald Trump would lead us to
again, husbands could walk out on their wives and children with no
penalty. I worked with many such women, in the drapery factory in
Seattle, where women were earning a dollar an hour and trying to make
deals with collection agencies, while buying enough food to keep their
children alive.
In later times, at least in the State of Washington, laws were finally
put in place rectifying these abuses. Sad to say, the laws at times
went above and beyond being reasonable. Men whined and bitched about
the outcome of court cases, but I had no ear for them. They could
have treated their wives and children fairly and avoided the need for
the Courts to intercede.
Today, women are still a long way from being equal to men. Now,
looking back on my life of male chauvinism, I must admit that I was
far, far, far more drawn to curvaceous, charming women, than I was
drawn to handsome, charming men. And Sex was definitely on my mind.
One of the hardest changes in my attitudes was this struggle to accept
women as my equals...and in the case of many, as my superiors(Cathy
comes to mind). In fact, Cathy was a large part responsible in my
learning that men and women could become partners, and still enjoy the
Glorious Differences between them.

Carl Jarvis


On 6/2/17, Chris Coulter via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
> Stocks? Cat-o-nine-tails? Boy, I can't remember where I put the whip and
> those stocks must be very rusty from disuse by now. I didn't realize the
> purity pledge was now a requirement. I heard it was something very much
> desired by the schools that used it but not that it was required. I'm out of
> touch already and this makes it even worse. People just sign because it's
> against the rules not to. That doesn't help them become accountable.
>
> Chris
>> On Jun 2, 2017, at 12:11 PM, Carl Jarvis via acb-chat
>> <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>
>> While I still stand on what I wrote, I am now doubly offended to learn
>> that public tax dollars are being used to support this negative,
>> pre-civilization "Education"! If it were my local school, I'd
>> organize an old fashioned Love-In right in front of the school.
>> Remember, it was our grand parents "teaching through public censure
>> and physical punishment" that got us where we are today. If we
>> honestly like the world as it now is, then let's double down and break
>> out the Cat O Nine Tails. Public Stoning is always good for a laugh.
>> And what about dusting off the good old Stocks?
>> God Bless us, Everyone!
>>
>> Carl Jarvis
>>
>>
>> On 6/2/17, Frank Ventura via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>> Chris, that "purity pledge" is required of most junior high and senior
>>> high
>>> students these days. In charter and private schools it is mandatory for
>>> all
>>> students and in "normal" public schools it is carefully crafted in the
>>> fine
>>> print that a student must sign if they want to participate in
>>> extracurricular activities.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Coulter via acb-chat [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:32 AM
>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>> range
>>> of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever comes
>>> to
>>> mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.
>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>> Cc: Chris Coulter <forestelf2@comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] Intelligent choices....
>>>
>>> Bob, Carl and the rest of the list,
>>>
>>> I am whole-heartedly a Christian and it breaks my heart to hear what the
>>> people who have corrupted the real following of Christ have done to that
>>> young girl. Just how hard was she pressured to sign that pledge? Just
>>> how
>>> much information did she have (or not have) about how strong sexual need
>>> is,
>>> especially when the one you need is also the one you might really love?
>>> I'm
>>> not saying that it's perfectly okay to bring a child into the world and
>>> raise that child without both Mom and Dad there to create a stable
>>> family;
>>> but it was also wrong of that administrator to say that the school had
>>> shown
>>> her the grace of God by not expelling her. What a thing to say after
>>> they
>>> have banished her from her graduation ceremony. I'm sure Jesus never
>>> meant
>>> people to be so cruel.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>> On May 29, 2017, at 6:09 PM, Bob Hachey via acb-chat
>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Carl,
>>>> I'm with you all the way here. I was raised Catholic and have been
>>>> questioning this whole religion thing since my parents told me that
>>>> we're
>>>> not supposed to eat meat on Fridays during lent.
>>>> There is no doubt in my mind that many if not all religions subjugate
>>>> women to roles lesser than that of men and they also tend to allow
>>>> women
>>>> to be treated horribly.
>>>> In my under-graduate studies, I recall reading a book entitled The Age
>>>> of
>>>> Religious wars. I often contemplate both the good and bad that religion
>>>> have brought to us and I'm inclined to believe that the bad outweighs
>>>> the
>>>> good. Seems to me that we humans should siphon off what is good in our
>>>> religions and toss the rest of it out. In terms of Christianity, good
>>>> things I see are the golden Rule and 8 of the ten commandments.
>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Carl Jarvis via acb-chat [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 2:29 PM
>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>>> range
>>>> of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever
>>>> comes
>>>> to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.
>>>> Cc: Carl Jarvis
>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] Intelligent choices....
>>>>
>>>> Believers call it, "God's Will". To my way of thinking, it is really
>>>> Man's ability to compartmentalize. The young woman in this story is
>>>> "held
>>>> responsible" for her indiscretions. Held responsible includes
>>>> humiliation
>>>> in front of her classmates, being ejected from her school even though
>>>> she
>>>> was allowed back after an appeal, and a final "lesson"
>>>> in not allowing her to be included in graduation ceremonies. The lesson
>>>> is
>>>> a simple one. Young girls, beware! If you are placed in a situation
>>>> where you become pregnant, God will single you out and punish you,
>>>> marking
>>>> you as an adulteress and a whore for the remainder of your life. And
>>>> that
>>>> child will be marked as a Bastard, and suffer the rest of His/Her life
>>>> for
>>>> your Sin. Oh yes, the other partner in this transgression? Well, he,
>>>> like God's favored Son David, gets a free pass.
>>>> And this is that All Knowing God of Mercy whom women have allowed men
>>>> to
>>>> inflict them with. That young woman, upon being ejected from school,
>>>> should have said, "You can't toss me out. I quit!" She should have
>>>> denounced those who sat in judgement over her, while ignoring the fact
>>>> that it still takes two to "create" new human life.
>>>> Of course, I am only familiar with Protestantism, having once been
>>>> "Born again and Baptized in the Holy Spirit". But I found the "Laws
>>>> of God" far too biased toward Men, at the expense of women and
>>>> children.
>>>> In the church I attended, God was top dog, then his Son Jesus. God's
>>>> son
>>>> Jesus was the head of God's church, and was boss of Man. Man was Boss
>>>> of
>>>> Woman and of their children. Man was told by God to be fair and kind
>>>> to
>>>> his wife and not to beat her with a rod larger than his thumb, but
>>>> nowhere
>>>> was Woman a Partner with Man. She was publicly stoned as an
>>>> adulterous.
>>>> But what did God do with the adulterer?
>>>> If we are not strong enough as a Species to deal with Life on our own,
>>>> then at least let's gather representatives from all corners of the
>>>> planet,
>>>> men, women, gays, blacks, whites, brown and all ages as well as
>>>> disabled,
>>>> and draw up a New God, created by Committee, and representative of All
>>>> People...and even better, of All Life on Earth.
>>>> Then we can toss out the old books that were crafted by men, for men,
>>>> and
>>>> draft a new book for all.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Jarvis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/26/17, Demaya, Diego via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>> Just a quote from the piece below: ""You can't claim to be pro-life
>>>>> and be against the killing of babies, but then try to toss out the
>>>>> girl who decides to keep her baby just because the situation does not
>>>>> meet your standard,"
>>>>> she said…"
>>>>>
>>>>> After Shaming Pregnant Senior For Months, Christian High School Says
>>>>> She Can't Walk At Graduation The principal says the teen is being
>>>>> punished "because she was immoral."
>>>>> David Lohr</us/author/david-lohr>
>>>>>
>>>>> A Maryland Christian school has barred an 18-year-old senior from
>>>>> walking in next month's graduation ceremonies because she is pregnant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maddi Runkles, who is a straight-A student, said she became pregnant
>>>>> five months ago. She said she expected some punishment, but also
>>>>> support from officials at the nondenominational Heritage Academy, in
>>>>> Hagerstown.
>>>>>
>>>>> "This has been more shame than punishment," Runkles told HuffPost.
>>>>>
>>>>> Runkles said in January, when she and her parents notified the school
>>>>> about her pregnancy, she was immediately dismissed. When her parents
>>>>> appealed the decision, they were told she could come back, but would
>>>>> have to continue her studies at home after spring break. A second
>>>>> appeal from the family resulted in the school's final decision:
>>>>> removing her from all leadership positions (she was student council
>>>>> president and vice president of the Key Club) and banning her from
>>>>> walking at her graduation ceremony.
>>>>> [http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5927305d1
>>>>> 5 0000210015b6d8.jpeg?cache=lbc9aqlqwg]
>>>>>
>>>>> Students for Life of America
>>>>> Maddi Runkles, who is a straight-A student and five months pregnant,
>>>>> has been barred from participating in her school's graduation
>>>>> ceremonies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heritage Academy's strict policies require students to sign a pledge
>>>>> in which they agree to protect their bodies by "abstaining from
>>>>> sexual immorality and from the use of alcohol, tobacco, and illegal
>>>>> drugs,"
>>>>> according to the school's
>>>>> website<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__heritage-2Dacademy.net_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cBOA5YEoZuz9KdLvh38YxdrPtfJt83ckXekfBgq5xB0&r=CK8oOj7-JYZnTDmB5orNTVZXar6NrsnGtGHfQ5m79Do&m=ZdWVuN5v4jDwQa6OgO7gWFl7TWuuwGvB8S-wQbMwKQc&s=Ld6DFr6_rU-r1FClauk-gluvLatSoy1UeeIg8OuA5R4&e=>.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Hobbs, administrator at Heritage Academy, addressed recent
>>>>> criticism<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ny
>>>>> t
>>>>> imes.com_2017_05_20_us_teen-2Dpregnancy-2Dreligious-2Dvalues-2Dchrist
>>>>> i
>>>>> an-2Dschool.html-3F-5Fr-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=cBOA5YEoZuz9KdLvh38YxdrPtfJt83
>>>>> c
>>>>> kXekfBgq5xB0&r=CK8oOj7-JYZnTDmB5orNTVZXar6NrsnGtGHfQ5m79Do&m=ZdWVuN5v
>>>>> 4
>>>>> jDwQa6OgO7gWFl7TWuuwGvB8S-wQbMwKQc&s=iUt81dfMxBGZJhgB67QoM_nbGXnHQlI5
>>>>> 4
>>>>> a9_xOTikpE&e=>
>>>>> in a
>>>>> statement<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__flii.b
>>>>> y
>>>>> _file_by16qa2zaqt_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cBOA5YEoZuz9KdLvh38YxdrPtfJt83ckXekfBgq
>>>>> 5
>>>>> xB0&r=CK8oOj7-JYZnTDmB5orNTVZXar6NrsnGtGHfQ5m79Do&m=ZdWVuN5v4jDwQa6Og
>>>>> O
>>>>> 7gWFl7TWuuwGvB8S-wQbMwKQc&s=8aAc7mdoD9b45xtz5zqE239AP0rjbcI6PctP_b30L
>>>>> f 0&e=> released earlier this week. According to Hobbs, Runkles was
>>>>> punished "not because she's pregnant, but because she was immoral."
>>>>>
>>>>> "Her immorality is the original choice she made that began this
>>>>> situation,"
>>>>> Hobbs wrote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Runkles counters that her punishment is much more severe than what's
>>>>> been doled out to others who have broken the pledge.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sexual morality is not just limited to premarital sex," she said.
>>>>> "There's many different forms of it and there have been other kids
>>>>> committing forms of sexual immorality and they have never been treated
>>>>> this harshly."
>>>>> [http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/crop_11_662_2563_2747,scalefit_6
>>>>> 3 0_noupscale/59273171150000470015b6df.jpeg]
>>>>>
>>>>> Students for Life of America
>>>>> "A bunch of families stood up for us and said, 'This is not right,'"
>>>>> Maddi Runkles told HuffPost.
>>>>>
>>>>> In his statement, Hobbs claims the school wanted to keep the matter
>>>>> private, "to protect: first Maddi, then Heritage." However, Runkles
>>>>> says Hobbs planned to notify students that she'd broken the rules.
>>>>> She said she didn't want her classmates to hear it from him, so she
>>>>> volunteered to read a prepared statement to her classmates.
>>>>>
>>>>> "It was before my parents and about 70 students ― my whole high
>>>>> school,"
>>>>> Runkles said. "I immediately started crying. I was embarrassed that I
>>>>> had to stand before all my peers and admit what I had done ... When I
>>>>> finished reading it, [Hobbs] got up and read off the punishments he
>>>>> saw
>>>>> fit."
>>>>>
>>>>> The father of her child attended a different school. He graduated
>>>>> last year and is attending college.
>>>>>
>>>>> In March, Runkles contacted the pro-life group Students for Life of
>>>>> America<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__studentsforlife.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=cBOA5YEoZuz9KdLvh38YxdrPtfJt83ckXekfBgq5xB0&r=CK8oOj7-JYZnTDmB5orNTVZXar6NrsnGtGHfQ5m79Do&m=ZdWVuN5v4jDwQa6OgO7gWFl7TWuuwGvB8S-wQbMwKQc&s=176hwnCrv2fsvbH1XtJe9rpommNwyj0qSS6p438xQhw&e=>.
>>>>> The organization's president, Kristan Hawkins, said after speaking
>>>>> with the teen and her parents she contacted Hobbs and asked him to
>>>>> reconsider letting the high school senior walk during the graduation
>>>>> ceremony, scheduled for June 2.
>>>>>
>>>>> "He basically said, 'This is a private decision [and] who are you to
>>>>> come in and try to change that,'" Hawkins told HuffPost.
>>>>>
>>>>> School administrators have ignored an online
>>>>> campaign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__students
>>>>> f
>>>>> orlife.org_this-2Dhigh-2Dschool-2Dsenior-2Dgot-2Dpregnant-2Dand-2Dyou
>>>>> -
>>>>> 2Dwont-2Dbelieve-2Dwhat-2Dher-2Dchristian-2Dschool-2Ddid_&d=DwMFaQ&c=
>>>>> c
>>>>> BOA5YEoZuz9KdLvh38YxdrPtfJt83ckXekfBgq5xB0&r=CK8oOj7-JYZnTDmB5orNTVZX
>>>>> a
>>>>> r6NrsnGtGHfQ5m79Do&m=ZdWVuN5v4jDwQa6OgO7gWFl7TWuuwGvB8S-wQbMwKQc&s=9p
>>>>> p ZPMmV-z3LclENwMoIcN4r17KkUiUQ3zSoocAMvV8&e=>
>>>>> supporting Runkles and direct pleas from her parents, Hawkins said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Runkles' father declined to comment Thursday. HuffPost was instead
>>>>> directed to a Facebook
>>>>> post<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.faceboo
>>>>> k
>>>>> .com_rhonda.runkles_posts_10210453233101699&d=DwMFaQ&c=cBOA5YEoZuz9Kd
>>>>> L
>>>>> vh38YxdrPtfJt83ckXekfBgq5xB0&r=CK8oOj7-JYZnTDmB5orNTVZXar6NrsnGtGHfQ5
>>>>> m
>>>>> 79Do&m=ZdWVuN5v4jDwQa6OgO7gWFl7TWuuwGvB8S-wQbMwKQc&s=02I0fEQSbxHHPwSM
>>>>> 7
>>>>> 2SW0ewHrV0JS8PLSOR44L-kSnU&e=>
>>>>> attributed to him.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Despite what some may think, Maddi nor her mother and I have ever
>>>>> advocated that she not be disciplined for her actions," he wrote. "My
>>>>> daughter should be held accountable … but grace and love should be
>>>>> more
>>>>> prominent."
>>>>>
>>>>> The post criticized the school's decision to wait until the end of
>>>>> the year to fully discipline his daughter, given that her confession
>>>>> had been made months earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> "To the detractors, ask yourself how restoration can take place when
>>>>> you put a student's punishment at the very end of their high school
>>>>> career," he wrote. "When do you plan to show Maddi the love and grace
>>>>> that is supposed to take place after discipline."
>>>>> [http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/59272f971
>>>>> 6 00002100ddcde2.jpeg?cache=ixtwqwho6h]
>>>>>
>>>>> Students for Life of America
>>>>> Maddi Runkles holding a recent sonogram image.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to Hobbs, the school showed Runkles grace by not expelling
>>>>> her.
>>>>> She will still receive her diploma and is still permitted to attend
>>>>> graduation, she just can't participate.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We love Maddi Runkles," Hobbs said. "The best way to love her right
>>>>> now is to hold her accountable for her immorality that began this
>>>>> situation."
>>>>>
>>>>> But that explanation doesn't satisfy Runkles.
>>>>>
>>>>> "You can't claim to be pro-life and be against the killing of babies,
>>>>> but then try to toss out the girl who decides to keep her baby just
>>>>> because the situation does not meet your standard," she said.
>>>>>
>>>>> It also doesn't sit well with her supporters.
>>>>>
>>>>> "There's a lot of young men and women watching this transpire and
>>>>> they've set a really awful example," Hawkins said. "That's why it's
>>>>> important for us to make this stupid matter public to show every
>>>>> student this is not acceptable behavior and certainly not acceptable
>>>>> Christian behavior.
>>>>> Hopefully Christian campuses across the country will see this story
>>>>> and re-evaluate how they handle these things."
>>>>>
>>>>>
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