Fwd: [acb-chat] [ACB-chat] Positively muddying up the waters

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Jarvis via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:07:23 +0000
Subject: [acb-chat] [ACB-chat] Positively muddying up the waters
To: Bob <buildyourownwealth@gmail.com>
Cc: Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com>, "General discussion list for ACB
members and friends where a wide range of topics from blindness to
politics, issues of the day or whatever comes to mind are welcome.
This is a free form discussion list." <acb-chat@acblists.org>

Good Wednesday morning Bob and all positive minded folks,

Bob wrote: " No, what separates us is your constant negativity about most
subjects. Rather than contributing constructive solutions to
problems, you promote socialistic/communistic/Marxist articles that
undercut mainstream values." Well Bob, no matter how you dress it
up, you disagree with me. Call what I write as being divisive and
negative if you choose, but I maintain my right to express my personal
opinions on this ACB Chat List. And, for the record, I defend your
right and the right of all on this list to disagree with the opinions
of one another...as well as to agree, without being trashed
personally.
Just for the record, I am not a student of
socialistic/communistic/Marxist philosophies.
If I understand you correctly, this is your defense for anything you
disagree with. So be it. But again, I dislike labels, and even avoid
calling myself a Progressive Radical...more than a few times a week.
I am curious as to just how my opinions are undercutting mainstream
values. That would assume other folks on this list are easily
confused or swayed. I don't believe that.
I will say this however, I believe that capitalism, and most
especially corporate capitalism, is constantly attacking mainstream
values. When we are no longer Citizens, but become Consumers, and our
Independence is measured, not by our character, but by our wealth,
then we have lost our American Values. Capitalism is a dangerous road
to travel. It only works when the Few profit at the expense of the
Many. Opportunity is rigged under capitalism. It's either that, or
the masses of working class people are far less competent than you or
I. And I don't believe that. Speaking for myself, I grew up in a
White Skin, in a Working Class family. Even being born with limited
vision, before becoming totally blind, I had opportunities far more
equal than those afforded by the young Black kids crammed into the
Seattle Negro Ghetto. Without going way back to the days when my two
sisters were cut off from the opportunities we White boys had, I would
point out that women have faced discrimination from the first days of
this nation, when they were not given the right to vote.
Opportunities are so very controlled by attitudes. What I do sense is
that capitalism has worked well for you. In my situation, not drawing
down the 7 figures you earn, I became successful, in my area of
expertise. But in saying this, I do not measure everyone else by my
abilities or by my successes. There are just too many factors that
weigh our "equal opportunity".
Over the time I've been on this list I have offered what I consider to
be positive directions toward providing a better system for a majority
of citizens. Of course my offerings are fiercely opposed to
capitalism. And of course I expect those who are profiting, or who
hope to profit, by capitalism, would oppose my offerings.
That, as we say, is what makes a ball game. Two teams working for the
same goal. Victory. Your team gathers several long ball sluggers.
My method is called Teamwork. And so we go at it, tooth and tong.
Which philosophy is best is decided by which team wins.
I have mentioned several times, the method of some small businesses to
include the entire workforce in determining the direction of the
business, rather than having their future security left in the hands
of the "boss" or a small board of directors. When everyone is
invested in the company, chances for success are better. I have also
said that we need to protect our nation from being destroyed by the
Mega Corporations that have expanded beyond all national borders and
beyond all control. Too big to fail, is a myth. When these giants
come up against one another, something has to give.
While I do believe that national boundaries are becoming useless, I do
not want to see nations replaced by Feudal Corporations. I believe
that our survival, as a species, depends upon our coming together as
One People. I believe that collectively we have the smarts to solve
any impending dangers facing us. Whether it is by disease or other
natural catastrophes, or from our own past abuses, we do have the
ability to ensure all people a secure life. Does this mean that we
will have to "carry" a few deadbeats? Maybe for a time, until we
learn to better educate ourselves. But remember, under capitalism we
are all supporting a few real deadbeats.
And I do still dream of the possibility of men and women leaping among
the stars, thousands of years from now. And one day, in my wildest of
dreams, Mankind discovers how the Universe began, and whether there is
some Creative Power.

Carl Jarvis



On 2/28/18, Bob <buildyourownwealth@gmail.com> wrote:
> Carl:
>
> No, what separates us is your constant negativity about most
> subjects. Rather than contributing constructive solutions to
> problems, you promote socialistic/communistic/Marxist articles that
> undercut mainstream values. Do you ever avail yourself of anything
> else?
> You decry capitalism but have no solution for the supposed issue.
> Rather than contributing ideas that would improve the current model,
> you want to tear it all down and continue to spread your propaganda
> about equal benefits for all no matter what the motivation or skill
> set.
> Like I asked you previously, where has your political model been
> implemented successfully?
> In any case, due to the radical programs of the left, Trump, or his
> equivalent in philosophny and the rejection of political correctness,
> will be elected in 2020.
> Have a great day.
>
> Bob Clark
>
>
>
> On 2/27/18, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good story, Bob.
>> It's the stuff novels are written from. Certainly your experiences
>> have shaped you, as have mine shaped me.
>> I enjoy our discussions, for the most part, but honestly, you and I
>> will never find ourselves on the same track. Just your insistence
>> that we all have equal opportunity puts us on different planets.
>> But my dinner horn is blowing, so I'll come back to this subject later...
>> Carl Jarvis
>>
>>
>> On 2/27/18, Bob via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>> Hello Carl:
>>>
>>> Yes, I will say it again: everybody has an equal opportunity. It
>>> does not matter if you are poor, disabled, etc. Unfortunately, most
>>> people do not take advantage of that equal opportunity. However,
>>> there is also many cases where people (poor, minority) have.
>>> I know: in your theoretical dream world, you want equal benefits for
>>> all no matter what their motivation level or skill set may be.
>>> Since you are the consummate storyteller, I will tell you a brief
>>> story.
>>> My parents died with I was 14. My Stepfather had a heart attack: my
>>> Mother committed suicide.
>>> Although my parents were fairly well-off for that time, they left
>>> all their assets to my half brother. I wan not what you call, the
>>> favored one. I was left with absolutely nothing.
>>> During high school, I lived with a friend until I could afford to
>>> get my own very small, very cheap apartment. To support myself, I
>>> loaded concrete blocks onto trucks during the Summer and part-time
>>> during the school year.
>>> After I graduated from high school, I received a wrestling
>>> scholarship to attend college. However, I took a year off between
>>> high school and college to explore the United states, Canada, and
>>> Mexico. I hitchhiked with my guide dog across the United States, into
>>> Mexico, back across the United states, into Canada, and back home
>>> again. I met many interesting people and a few jerks too. In
>>> essence, I guess that you could say that I was trying to find myself
>>> as well as the real meaning of life and what is really important.
>>> After college, my first job was a programmer job. I worked for
>>> several companies in positions ranging from a programmer to a vice
>>> president of product development.
>>> Finally, I grew tired of the corporate environment and started my
>>> own information technology consulting company. At one point, I had
>>> over 200 employees working with me.
>>> So, don't give me this crap that if you have nothing and are blind
>>> that you can't succeed in the capitalistic system. Yes, it takes
>>> motivation and hard work but it certainly can be done.
>>> If you look at many of the new millionaires/billionaires, they
>>> started with virtually nothing. They had a good idea or product that
>>> lead to their wealth. Yes, there is wealth that is passed down from
>>> generation to generation. However, many of the very rich today are
>>> first generation wealth.
>>> And then there is your statement that wealthy people can't fail.
>>> The record speaks to the contrary. There are many wealthy people who
>>> have lost everything. Have you ever heard of the crash of 1987 and
>>> 2008?
>>> I personally find your mindset about blindness and capitalism
>>> extremely unfortunate. Rather than whining all the time about
>>> inequity, discrimination, and capitalism, perhaps, you might consider
>>> being more inspirational to people trying to free themselves from
>>> mediocrity. It's unclear to me whether you believe all that crap or
>>> just are trying to push your socialistic agenda. However, I
>>> absolutely respect your choice to believe and perpetrate anything that
>>> you believe is really constructive.
>>> As far as the pond, look at your wacky environmental friends for these
>>> issues.
>>> Carl, to be successful in this world, you need motivation, a good
>>> work ethic, determination, and to ignore people like you that say that
>>> it can not be done. It is easy to make excuses like corporate
>>> empire/oligarchy, being poor, and your list goes on and on.
>>> Success is a mindset: it is not feeling sorry for yourself and
>>> making excuses for your inability to succeed.
>>> If you took all the assets in this country and divided them up
>>> equally among the masses, you would soon find that in short order, you
>>> would have the wealthy and the poor again.
>>> Have a great day.
>>>
>>> Bob Clark
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/27/18, Claude Everett via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>> I have a better idea, let's lower the salary and in, of the top earning
>>>> corporate executives to five times the amount of the lowest earning
>>>> wage
>>>> employees.
>>>>
>>>> Verbally dictated and sent from my iPhone any errors or omissions are
>>>> solely
>>>> the responsibility of Siri and not myself
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Carl Jarvis via acb-chat
>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> $55 per hour comes to around $114 per year. Sounds about right.
>>>>> That's a far cry from the $15 per hour that folks would like to earn
>>>>> as the wage minimum.
>>>>> Some of my friends say that unskilled labor ought not be paid $15 per
>>>>> hour. But they are all either nicely retired or making better than
>>>>> $55 per hour. My dad pounded into my head, "There is dignity in all
>>>>> labor". I believe that. And please spare me the song about raising
>>>>> the minimum wage, breaking the nations economic back. When I first
>>>>> went to work at a real job, in 1951, wage minimum was 75 cents an
>>>>> hour. You should have heard the agonizing moans by small businessmen
>>>>> when the minimum was raised to $1.00 per hour. "We'll go out of
>>>>> business for sure". They didn't. With each raise in the minimum,
>>>>> people spend more. A man or woman earning ten dollars an hour will
>>>>> spend it all. Fifteen dollars an hour will still be totally put back
>>>>> in the community. Wage minimum ought to be somewhere around $25 per
>>>>> hour. Sure, our friendly, caring capitalists will raise prices, and
>>>>> that will force some working class folks to tighten their belts, but
>>>>> as the bottom goes up, so will the middle. And don't worry about the
>>>>> top, they win every time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl Jarvis
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/26/18, Frank Ventura via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Wow seriously $55 average for a software engineer? I am a Systems
>>>>>> Analyst
>>>>>> for a public agency and there are five more folks at my level. Even
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> highest of us doesn't get paid anywhere near that and there is no
>>>>>> pension
>>>>>> either. I think there are some very highly paid folks that bring up
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> average. For example I have a friend in CT (private sector of course)
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is at the same level as I am and he takes down $180 per hour; but I
>>>>>> consider
>>>>>> him the exception rather than the rule.I would wonder what the mean
>>>>>> income
>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: William Grussenmeyer via acb-chat
>>>>>> [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 12:11 PM
>>>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>>>>> range
>>>>>> of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.
>>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>> Cc: William Grussenmeyer <wdg31415@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cynicism is a good thing. It keeps you from being taken advantage
>>>>>> of.
>>>>>> I pride myself on being as cynical as possible at all times. I take
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> one's word for anything, and I doubt anyone's selfless motives. By
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> way,
>>>>>> I think you under-estimate how much doctors make. Karen has posted
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> that her hourly rate is $160, and the average software engineer makes
>>>>>> $55.
>>>>>> Psychiatrists, eye doctors, heart surgeons make double or triple of
>>>>>> four
>>>>>> times hourly wages as Karen's. You can look up such information on
>>>>>> glassdoor.com or you can find salaries of doctors who work for the
>>>>>> state
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> California UC medical schools, or other state run medical schools, on
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> websites.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/26/18, Bob via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karen: I contend that healthcare is not a right that must be
>>>>>>> bestowed by the government for every individual. When you discuss
>>>>>>> maintaining a healthy body, that is the responsibility of the
>>>>>>> individual, not a right of the individual that must be bestowed by
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>> In my opinion, that is a major issue for the progressive left: they
>>>>>>> confuse individual rights with individual responsibilities. In
>>>>>>> essence, progressives want to forfeit all their responsibilities in
>>>>>>> the name of receiving equal rights/benefits which will ultimately
>>>>>>> lead
>>>>>>> to forfeiting their individual freedoms to the government in the
>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>> of government's responsibility to bestow rights.
>>>>>>> It is the government's responsibility to provide each individual
>>>>>>> equal opportunity without discrimination: it is not the government's
>>>>>>> responsibility to become a nanny state unless of course, you are a
>>>>>>> proponent of socialism.
>>>>>>> Carl: you continue to rail against me saying that I label you or
>>>>>>> call you names. To the contrary, you have specifically stated in
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> of your email threads that you are a progressive/leftist.
>>>>>>> Now, how is that calling you names or labeling you when you
>>>>>>> specifically state that this is your position. I suppose if you
>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>> me blind, you are calling me names or labeling me. I think not. It
>>>>>>> is what it is. Don't be so defensive. Just accept what you say you
>>>>>>> are rather than attacking me for something that I agree with you.
>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Clark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/26/18, Bob Hachey via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Eric,
>>>>>>>> You asked "What did W. do?"
>>>>>>>> He promoted a most regressive tax cut in 2002 which helped to
>>>>>>>> foster
>>>>>>>> the growth of the rampant income inequality that now afflicts us.
>>>>>>>> This tax cut created debt, gave a few crumpbs to most of us and was
>>>>>>>> like Christmas Day for the wealthy. This latest tax cut may look
>>>>>>>> better in the beginning with the ddoubling of the standard
>>>>>>>> deduction,
>>>>>>>> but that part goes away in a few years and the generous benefits
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the very wealthy are permanent.
>>>>>>>> Also, W. promoted the constant war policies that we're still
>>>>>>>> sgruggling under. IT is true that many Democrats fogged by the
>>>>>>>> recent
>>>>>>>> fear of 911 went along with all of the nastiness, like supporting
>>>>>>>> corrupt governments in Afghanistan and Pakistan, invading Iraq,
>>>>>>>> passing the patriot Act, increasing the use of dastardly practices
>>>>>>>> such as rendition, etc. IF we aare to ever truly fight a war on
>>>>>>>> terror we should be looking much more critically at Saudi Arabia.
>>>>>>>> Recall that the 911 hijackers were Saudis. Also, Saudi Arabia is a
>>>>>>>> major funder of terrorist groups and is one of the most backward
>>>>>>>> nations in its treatment of women. I'm not sure if Saudi Arabia
>>>>>>>> should be considered our enemy, but they certainly shouldn't be
>>>>>>>> considered our friend.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Finally, the inexperience of George W. Bush allowed evil war
>>>>>>>> monguers
>>>>>>>> like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney to gain greater power.
>>>>>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: William Grussenmeyer via acb-chat
>>>>>>>> [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 6:24 PM
>>>>>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a
>>>>>>>> wide
>>>>>>>> range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or
>>>>>>>> whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion
>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>> Cc: William Grussenmeyer
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're very naïve to think lots of people don't go into medicine
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the money. Maybe you didn't, but money is what pretty much
>>>>>>>> motivates
>>>>>>>> most people. Profits make the world go around. And don't we
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>> have a Medicaid system for those who can't afford health insurance?
>>>>>>>> And where does it say in our constitution that health care is a
>>>>>>>> fundamental right? Everyone has far better access to medical care
>>>>>>>> than they did a hundred years or even worse two hundred years ago.
>>>>>>>> You take for granted ambulances and emergency rooms opened on
>>>>>>>> Saturday and sunday as some fundamental right, but count yourself
>>>>>>>> lucky you didn't live two hundred years ago, and these ready
>>>>>>>> available emergency services are all here due to capitalism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/25/18, Eric Calhoun via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> And what did Dubya do?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eric from Los Angeles. Be good to each other. Never sweat the
>>>>>>>>> small stuff.
>>>>>>>>> Speak to your mountain; God moves mountains. Come expecting a
>>>>>>>>> miracle!
>>>>>>>>> Always have faith! Always reach faster, higher, stronger. Eric
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> Facebook: eric@pmpmail.com. If you're on Facebook, please come
>>>>>>>>> join
>>>>>>>>> my Facebook group:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/631397660379317/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great is His faithfulness!
>>>>>>>>> Original Message:
>>>>>>>>> From: Bob Hachey via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>>>>> To: "'General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a
>>>>>>>>> wide range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day
>>>>>>>>> or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form
>>>>>>>>> discussion list.'"
>>>>>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>>>>> CC: Bob Hachey <bhachey@verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:36:49 +0000
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>> Well, one is a bit disparaging of "leftist socialism." But we've
>>>>>>>>> tried it your way under W. and where did that lead? Can you say
>>>>>>>>> Depression of 2008?
>>>>>>>>> The only things that trickle down are water and bodily functions.
>>>>>>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Bob via acb-chat [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 2:20 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a
>>>>>>>>> wide
>>>>>>>>> range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or
>>>>>>>>> whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion
>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Bob
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello William:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Carl, our resident liberal/progressive/leftist, does not care
>>>>>>>>> about any of this capitalist philosophy. He supports and
>>>>>>>>> constantly
>>>>>>>>> promotes the equal opportunity/rights/benefits theory for all no
>>>>>>>>> matter what the level of motivation and/or capability of the
>>>>>>>>> individual may be.
>>>>>>>>> Rather than defending his perspective when asked questions, he
>>>>>>>>> constantly posts articles that convey the
>>>>>>>>> socialism/communism/Marxism agenda.
>>>>>>>>> We should probably just start a new listserv for Carl so he can
>>>>>>>>> spread his indoctrination rhetoric to those who really care.
>>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob Clark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> P.s. By the way Karen, healthcare is not a right. Again, just
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> Californian socialist philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/25/18, Karen Rose via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Under a true single-payer system everyone would be permitted to
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>> a doctor when needed from the time we are born to the time we
>>>>>>>>>> die.
>>>>>>>>>> Healthcare is a right not a privilege for the wealthy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 10:48 AM, William Grussenmeyer via acb-chat
>>>>>>>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A single payer health system would be a terrible idea. Doctors
>>>>>>>>>>> would get paid less. Surgeons would get paid less. And drug
>>>>>>>>>>> researchers would get paid less. Which would all result in a
>>>>>>>>>>> braind drain in the health care system. Why should these people
>>>>>>>>>>> work for less pay when they can go to another profession and
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>>>>> You are seeing this in UK right now where they are a shortage of
>>>>>>>>>>> doctors for this exact reason. Not only would there be a
>>>>>>>>>>> shortage
>>>>>>>>>>> of doctors, the doctors that would be left would be on average
>>>>>>>>>>> less competent and less intelligent and lazier as they would not
>>>>>>>>>>> get paid for working any harder. The brightest students in
>>>>>>>>>>> college would choose to go to another profession instead of med
>>>>>>>>>>> school as they would not get paid as much as they are paid now.
>>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, all the research and advancements in new medical
>>>>>>>>>>> procedures would slow down or become non-existent as no would be
>>>>>>>>>>> able to make a profit from them. Money makes the world go
>>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>>> and without profits no one is motivated to do anything. Our
>>>>>>>>>>> health system would drop off from the best in the world to a
>>>>>>>>>>> third
>>>>>>>>>>> world country health system.
>>>>>>>>>>> Communism and socialism do not work as money is taken out of the
>>>>>>>>>>> equation and people simply do not work as hard nor care about
>>>>>>>>>>> innovating. Without capitalism, we wouldn't have computers, the
>>>>>>>>>>> internet, or even cars for that matter.
>>>>>>>>>>> These single payer systems are ridiculous and people simply do
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> understand the economic effects that taking profits out of the
>>>>>>>>>>> equation would have on the quality of their health care.
>>>>>>>>>>> The only argument that people have for this single payer system
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> that 30 million people are uninsured. But the fact of the
>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>> is they fail to acknowledge the fact that some of these people
>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>> not want to buy health insurance and do not care. Under the ACA
>>>>>>>>>>> and the medicaid expansion, almost everyone should have been
>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>> to afford health insurance. But some people choose not to do it
>>>>>>>>>>> because they did not want to. How many of these 30 million
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> really can't afford health insurance and how many of them are
>>>>>>>>>>> simply choosing to spend their money on other things? How many
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> them on their taxes lied and said they had health insurance when
>>>>>>>>>>> they did not? The fact of the matter is that I am not
>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>> in policing people's irresponsibility. There would always be
>>>>>>>>>>> people who choose not to buy health insurance. Even people who
>>>>>>>>>>> work for employers who provide health insurance at a low cost or
>>>>>>>>>>> no cost decide to and can opt out of the health insurance
>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>> if they want to and some of them do this.
>>>>>>>>>>> Do not get me started on people's financial irresponsibility.
>>>>>>>>>>> There was an article in the Wall Street Journal stating that on
>>>>>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>>>>>>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>>>>>>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>>>>>>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> William Grussenmeyer
>>>>>>>> PhD Student, Computer Science
>>>>>>>> University of Nevada, Reno
>>>>>>>> NSF Fellow
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>>>>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>>>>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>>>>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> William Grussenmeyer
>>>>>> PhD Student, Computer Science
>>>>>> University of Nevada, Reno
>>>>>> NSF Fellow
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>
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