Re: [acb-chat] [ACB-chat] clearing up the muddy waters

You're a funny guy, Bob. I'm not certain if you are a rascal or a scoundrel.
You wrote: "With all due respect, you are out of your mind." That is
one of the oldest tricks used by propagandists.
"With all due respect"? So just drop the phony baloney and tell the
list that you think Carl is nuts, crazy as a Loony Bird. But this
does not address the fact that you are defending the right of the
business establishment to pay as little to their employees as they can
arrange to pay.
And to hide behind "free enterprise"? For shame. Tell that to those
large numbers of disabled workers in sweat shops like Good Will and
the Light Houses for the Blind, that still pay sub minimal wages. My
bottom line is this: If we can't care for the needs of *ALL our
People, then whether we are a business or a nation, we need to close
up shop.
Carl Jarvis(and I am having a nice day)
***

article
How Does the Minimum Wage Impact the Economy?
The federal minimum wage provides compensation increases at a
different rate than inflation increases, leaving many workers behind
economically. However,
increasing pay too dramatically can have negative impacts.
June 14, 2017
Minimum wage business
LDHeadshot
By Lauren Dixon,
Senior Editor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






When the United States first set a minimum wage through the Fair Labor
Standards Act of 1938, the hourly rate sat at 25 cents. Prior to that,
during the
Great Depression, people facing up to a 25 percent unemployment were
desperate for work, so employers could take advantage and pay very
little. The minimum
wage was then established to prevent that exploitation, said David
Cooper, senior economic analyst and deputy director at Economic
Analysis and Research
Network at the Economic Policy Institute.

Without a wage floor, employers would continue to pay less and less,
destroying the purchasing power of the consumers who would make less
money, Cooper
said. The minimum wage then helps mitigate that
imbalance of power
between employers and low-wage workers.

That 1938 rule underwent revisions, including a periodic raising of
the federal minimum wage, which rests at an hourly rate of $7.25,
where it was set
in 2009, according to the
Department of Labor.
Some states and cities took it upon themselves to
raise their minimum wages
to much higher rates, such as New York City, which will have a
$15-per-hour wage by 2018.

As municipalities, unions and advocates push for a higher minimum wage
to reduce poverty, many business leaders push back out of fear that
their businesses
will flounder when having to increase payroll costs.

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Although wages rose by $7 since 1938, purchasing power differs
dramatically over time. When adjusting for inflation, today's federal
minimum wage is about
the same as in the 1950s. At its highest point in 1968, the minimum
wage equaled $10.90 in 2015 dollars, more than $3 off from current
pay. Advocates for
higher wages say today's minimum wage is not a living wage. "Part of
the problem is that we've let the minimum wage erode for so long that
that gap has
grown substantially such that now it's hard to even consider bringing
the federal wage floor up to a level that would allow someone to have
a decent quality
of life wherever they may live," Cooper said.

When the minimum wage doesn't keep pace with inflation, its power
erodes. "It's worth less and less and less," said Sylvia Allegretto,
labor economist
and co-chair of the Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at the
University of California, Berkeley. "And don't forget that these
low-wage workers today,
compared to their counterparts of decades ago, are more educated,
they're more productive, the economic pie has expanded greatly, yet
these low-wage workers
are making less today than similar workers did several decades ago."
Trends like this are why unions and activist groups march and
legislate for higher
minimum wages.

What is the Economic Impact of a Rising Minimum Wage?

Theoretically, raising the minimum wage would mean more money in the
pockets of workers. In practice, it's more complex.

Allegretto coauthored a report,
"Effects of a $15 Minimum Wage in California and Fresno,"
for the Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, finding that
a $15 minimum wage in California would increase earnings for 38
percent of the state,
and businesses would see a reduction in turnover and increases in
productivity. Raising prices by 0.6 percent through 2023 would offset
increased payroll
costs, the report said.

In 1992, Alan B. Krueger, a professor of economics and public affairs
at Princeton University and columnist for The New York Times, found
that when New
Jersey raised its minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.05, job growth at fast
food restaurants was equally as strong in Pennsylvania, which did not
raise wages.
"If the minimum wage is set at a moderate level it does not
necessarily reduce employment," he wrote in The New York Times'
"The Minimum Wage: How Much Is Too Much?"
"While some employers cut jobs in response to a minimum-wage
increase, others find that a higher wage floor enables them to fill
their vacancies and reduce
turnover, which raises employment, even though it eats into their
profits. The net effect of all this, as has been found in most studies
of the minimum
wage over the last quarter-century, is that when it is set at a
moderate level, the minimum wage has little or no effect on
employment," Krueger wrote.

RELATED:
Corporate Profits Are Up — But Wages Remain Stagnant. Here Are 4 Reasons Why.

However, not all agree on the impacts of a rising minimum wage, and
results of an increase could vary dramatically based on location,
industry and amount
of wage boost. If a new minimum wage is set low and close to labor
costs, there would be minimal harm to business; if set too high, then
damage could be
significant, said Mark Schug, professor emeritus at University of
Wisconsin at Milwaukee, and president of Mark Schug Consulting
Services.

One main criticism of a minimum wage hike is that it would harm
businesses, especially small, independently owned stores. The National
Retail Federation

found in a survey
that 37 percent of small retailers would see serious threats to their
ability to continue operating under a minimum wage of $15 per hour.

To offset some of these rising labor costs that some cities recently
enacted, some restaurants add a surcharge of 3 to 4 percent, according
to The Wall
Street Journal's March 2017 story,
"New on Your Dinner Tab: A Labor Surcharge."
Raising menu prices lead customers to choose less expensive items
than they normally would, so the surcharge aids in mitigating
increased costs of doing
business, the story said.

Not all small businesses are restaurants, though, so an increase in
labor costs might force business leaders to reduce staff. The Heritage
Foundation published
an August 2016 report,
"How $15-per-Hour Minimum Starting Wages Would Affect Each State,"
finding that a nationwide minimum wage of $15 per hour would lead to
9 million jobs lost, and states with lower costs of living would see
the most negative
impact. "Efforts to create jobs and reduce poverty should not center
on forcing employers to pay higher starting wages," the story
concludes.

Flaws With the Federal Minimum Wage

A federal minimum wage will have different values based on location,
due to the cost of living, hence New York City's $15 minimum wage. The
cost of living
there is far different than McAllen, Texas, which has the lowest cost
in the U.S., according to
Kiplinger,
a business forecast publication. Therefore, minimum wages set
regionally make more sense, Schug said. "I think it's very clumsy to
have a federally mandated
minimum wage."

If the U.S. could do away with the minimum wage entirely, Schug said
that wages could be set by supply and demand. If employers see
difficulty holding
onto their staff, then they should simply pay more or have greater
benefits, he added. The interaction between the employer and employee
would set that
market rate for pay. "Why mess with a price that's set by supply and
demand?" Schug asked. Other professions compensation based on their
market rates,
and the minimum-wage workforce only makes up 3.3 percent of all hourly
paid workers, according to the
Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Too much effort is spent on discussing the issue of minimum wage,
which impacts only a small group of workers, Schug said.

Nevertheless, it looks as though the minimum wage will remain and
continue to rise over time in some capacity. That doesn't mean there
aren't flaws with
the system. Not all who earn a minimum wage would benefit from
increases in the same ways, so Schug said economists prefer policies
that are designed to
help the people they're intended to benefit. According to BLS data,
about half of hourly workers who earn at or below the federal minimum
wage are 25 years
old or younger. Some of these workers are students and young people
from affluent families, Schug said, and they need a wage increase much
less than a
single mother, for example. Therefore, Schug said, an earned income
tax credit would be more effective in reducing poverty, as it better
targets those
who need additional funds the most by providing additional funds to
recipients based on income and number of children.

Economic Policy Institute's Cooper also suggested supports from
government programs to help mitigate wage woes. News from earlier this
month cited a report
from the National Low Income Housing Coalition, which found that in
only 12 counties in the U.S. will a minimum wage allow a person to
rent a one-bedroom
apartment in a safe area without spending more than 30 percent of
their income, according to
The Washington Post.
This differs by location, with $11.46 being the hourly wage needed to
rent in Georgia, compared to $58.04 in the San Francisco Bay area.

Part of this issue is that household income has not kept pace with
rent increases. However, Cooper said this isn't only the fault of a
stagnant minimum
wage. Housing policy also has not responded to rising rental costs,
which increased at a rate of 6 percent between 2007 and 2015, whereas
federal funding
for housing assistance declined 3 percent between 2010 and 2016, the
same Washington Post story stated. This is all while household income
dipped 4 percent.
"Certainly the minimum wage being left to erode has created a
situation where a lot of low-wage workers are not able to afford a
place to live, certainly
not in the cities where most of the job growth has been over the last
10 years," Cooper said.

Other proposals to aid issues around costs of living include ones like the
Raise the Wage Act,
via current U.S. Senate Democrats and House Representatives. This bill
aims to provide 41 million low-wage workers raises, reaching $15 an
hour by 2024,
while closing a loophole that allows for tipped, disabled and young
workers to receive far less than the federal minimum wage. The act
would also index
wage increases to the median wage growth after 2024, the act states.

The Roles of Business Leaders

Naturally, business leaders hoping to keep their operating costs low
are likely to oppose a minimum wage increase, but Cooper said this is
because they're
not looking at the broader market picture. With fatter paychecks,
workers have increased purchasing power, thus benefiting businesses.
And with a federal
minimum wage increase, it impacts more than just a single business;
all other organizations with similar employee makeups will face
similar changes to
their payrolls.

"Good business leaders want their employees to have a decent life and
want their employees to make enough money to afford to live," Cooper
said. "They
just don't want to be put at a competitive disadvantage." If leaders
think more holistically about how a rising minimum wage would affect
the labor market
and the economy as a whole, they're likely to be more supportive of
minimum wage increases.

Lauren Dixon is an associate editor at Talent Economy. To comment, email
editor@talenteconomy.io.
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On 2/27/18, Bob <buildyourownwealth@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Carl:
>
> With all due respect, you are out of your mind.
> A minimum wage of $25 an hour is ridiculous. Whether you like it or
> not, wages are paid based upon factors including reasonable minimum
> wage requirements, type of work being performed, length of experience,
> and (omg) the law of supply and demand.
> Studies have already shown that the $15 an hour minimum wage paid
> requirement in some localities have adversely impacted teenage
> employment.
> Due to the advent of more sophisticated automation techniques, The
> reality of paying a $25 an hour minimum wage would lead to more
> unemployment for minimal type jobs. This is already happening in the
> fast food industry. Even Amazon in Seattle has a totally automated
> store.
> In short, this is the exact problem that liberal progressive/leftist
> proponents have. They are out of touch with reality. What they
> preach is unsustainable.
> Have a great day.
>
> Bob Clark
>
>
> On 2/26/18, Carl Jarvis via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>> $55 per hour comes to around $114 per year. Sounds about right.
>> That's a far cry from the $15 per hour that folks would like to earn
>> as the wage minimum.
>> Some of my friends say that unskilled labor ought not be paid $15 per
>> hour. But they are all either nicely retired or making better than
>> $55 per hour. My dad pounded into my head, "There is dignity in all
>> labor". I believe that. And please spare me the song about raising
>> the minimum wage, breaking the nations economic back. When I first
>> went to work at a real job, in 1951, wage minimum was 75 cents an
>> hour. You should have heard the agonizing moans by small businessmen
>> when the minimum was raised to $1.00 per hour. "We'll go out of
>> business for sure". They didn't. With each raise in the minimum,
>> people spend more. A man or woman earning ten dollars an hour will
>> spend it all. Fifteen dollars an hour will still be totally put back
>> in the community. Wage minimum ought to be somewhere around $25 per
>> hour. Sure, our friendly, caring capitalists will raise prices, and
>> that will force some working class folks to tighten their belts, but
>> as the bottom goes up, so will the middle. And don't worry about the
>> top, they win every time.
>>
>> Carl Jarvis
>> .
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/18, Frank Ventura via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>> Wow seriously $55 average for a software engineer? I am a Systems
>>> Analyst
>>> for a public agency and there are five more folks at my level. Even the
>>> highest of us doesn't get paid anywhere near that and there is no
>>> pension
>>> either. I think there are some very highly paid folks that bring up the
>>> average. For example I have a friend in CT (private sector of course)
>>> that
>>> is at the same level as I am and he takes down $180 per hour; but I
>>> consider
>>> him the exception rather than the rule.I would wonder what the mean
>>> income
>>> is.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: William Grussenmeyer via acb-chat [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 12:11 PM
>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>> range
>>> of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever
>>> comes
>>> to
>>> mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.
>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>> Cc: William Grussenmeyer <wdg31415@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>
>>> Cynicism is a good thing. It keeps you from being taken advantage of.
>>> I pride myself on being as cynical as possible at all times. I take no
>>> one's word for anything, and I doubt anyone's selfless motives. By the
>>> way,
>>> I think you under-estimate how much doctors make. Karen has posted
>>> before
>>> that her hourly rate is $160, and the average software engineer makes
>>> $55.
>>> Psychiatrists, eye doctors, heart surgeons make double or triple of four
>>> times hourly wages as Karen's. You can look up such information on
>>> glassdoor.com or you can find salaries of doctors who work for the state
>>> of
>>> California UC medical schools, or other state run medical schools, on
>>> other
>>> websites.
>>>
>>> On 2/26/18, Bob via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello:
>>>>
>>>> Karen: I contend that healthcare is not a right that must be
>>>> bestowed by the government for every individual. When you discuss
>>>> maintaining a healthy body, that is the responsibility of the
>>>> individual, not a right of the individual that must be bestowed by the
>>>> government.
>>>> In my opinion, that is a major issue for the progressive left: they
>>>> confuse individual rights with individual responsibilities. In
>>>> essence, progressives want to forfeit all their responsibilities in
>>>> the name of receiving equal rights/benefits which will ultimately lead
>>>> to forfeiting their individual freedoms to the government in the name
>>>> of government's responsibility to bestow rights.
>>>> It is the government's responsibility to provide each individual
>>>> equal opportunity without discrimination: it is not the government's
>>>> responsibility to become a nanny state unless of course, you are a
>>>> proponent of socialism.
>>>> Carl: you continue to rail against me saying that I label you or
>>>> call you names. To the contrary, you have specifically stated in many
>>>> of your email threads that you are a progressive/leftist.
>>>> Now, how is that calling you names or labeling you when you
>>>> specifically state that this is your position. I suppose if you call
>>>> me blind, you are calling me names or labeling me. I think not. It
>>>> is what it is. Don't be so defensive. Just accept what you say you
>>>> are rather than attacking me for something that I agree with you.
>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>
>>>> Bob Clark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/26/18, Bob Hachey via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Eric,
>>>>> You asked "What did W. do?"
>>>>> He promoted a most regressive tax cut in 2002 which helped to foster
>>>>> the growth of the rampant income inequality that now afflicts us.
>>>>> This tax cut created debt, gave a few crumpbs to most of us and was
>>>>> like Christmas Day for the wealthy. This latest tax cut may look
>>>>> better in the beginning with the ddoubling of the standard deduction,
>>>>> but that part goes away in a few years and the generous benefits for
>>>>> the very wealthy are permanent.
>>>>> Also, W. promoted the constant war policies that we're still
>>>>> sgruggling under. IT is true that many Democrats fogged by the recent
>>>>> fear of 911 went along with all of the nastiness, like supporting
>>>>> corrupt governments in Afghanistan and Pakistan, invading Iraq,
>>>>> passing the patriot Act, increasing the use of dastardly practices
>>>>> such as rendition, etc. IF we aare to ever truly fight a war on
>>>>> terror we should be looking much more critically at Saudi Arabia.
>>>>> Recall that the 911 hijackers were Saudis. Also, Saudi Arabia is a
>>>>> major funder of terrorist groups and is one of the most backward
>>>>> nations in its treatment of women. I'm not sure if Saudi Arabia
>>>>> should be considered our enemy, but they certainly shouldn't be
>>>>> considered our friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, the inexperience of George W. Bush allowed evil war monguers
>>>>> like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney to gain greater power.
>>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: William Grussenmeyer via acb-chat
>>>>> [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 6:24 PM
>>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>>>> range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or
>>>>> whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion
>>>>> list.
>>>>> Cc: William Grussenmeyer
>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>
>>>>> You're very naïve to think lots of people don't go into medicine for
>>>>> the money. Maybe you didn't, but money is what pretty much motivates
>>>>> most people. Profits make the world go around. And don't we already
>>>>> have a Medicaid system for those who can't afford health insurance?
>>>>> And where does it say in our constitution that health care is a
>>>>> fundamental right? Everyone has far better access to medical care
>>>>> than they did a hundred years or even worse two hundred years ago.
>>>>> You take for granted ambulances and emergency rooms opened on
>>>>> Saturday and sunday as some fundamental right, but count yourself
>>>>> lucky you didn't live two hundred years ago, and these ready
>>>>> available emergency services are all here due to capitalism.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/25/18, Eric Calhoun via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>> And what did Dubya do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eric from Los Angeles. Be good to each other. Never sweat the
>>>>>> small stuff.
>>>>>> Speak to your mountain; God moves mountains. Come expecting a
>>>>>> miracle!
>>>>>> Always have faith! Always reach faster, higher, stronger. Eric on
>>>>>> Facebook: eric@pmpmail.com. If you're on Facebook, please come join
>>>>>> my Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/631397660379317/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great is His faithfulness!
>>>>>> Original Message:
>>>>>> From: Bob Hachey via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>> To: "'General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a
>>>>>> wide range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day
>>>>>> or whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form
>>>>>> discussion list.'"
>>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>> CC: Bob Hachey <bhachey@verizon.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:36:49 +0000
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>> Well, one is a bit disparaging of "leftist socialism." But we've
>>>>>> tried it your way under W. and where did that lead? Can you say
>>>>>> Depression of 2008?
>>>>>> The only things that trickle down are water and bodily functions.
>>>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Bob via acb-chat [mailto:acb-chat@acblists.org]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>>>>> range of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or
>>>>>> whatever comes to mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>> Cc: Bob
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-chat] muddying up the waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello William:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl, our resident liberal/progressive/leftist, does not care
>>>>>> about any of this capitalist philosophy. He supports and constantly
>>>>>> promotes the equal opportunity/rights/benefits theory for all no
>>>>>> matter what the level of motivation and/or capability of the
>>>>>> individual may be.
>>>>>> Rather than defending his perspective when asked questions, he
>>>>>> constantly posts articles that convey the
>>>>>> socialism/communism/Marxism agenda.
>>>>>> We should probably just start a new listserv for Carl so he can
>>>>>> spread his indoctrination rhetoric to those who really care.
>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Clark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.s. By the way Karen, healthcare is not a right. Again, just more
>>>>>> Californian socialist philosophy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/25/18, Karen Rose via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Under a true single-payer system everyone would be permitted to see
>>>>>>> a doctor when needed from the time we are born to the time we die.
>>>>>>> Healthcare is a right not a privilege for the wealthy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 10:48 AM, William Grussenmeyer via acb-chat
>>>>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A single payer health system would be a terrible idea. Doctors
>>>>>>>> would get paid less. Surgeons would get paid less. And drug
>>>>>>>> researchers would get paid less. Which would all result in a
>>>>>>>> braind drain in the health care system. Why should these people
>>>>>>>> work for less pay when they can go to another profession and make
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>> You are seeing this in UK right now where they are a shortage of
>>>>>>>> doctors for this exact reason. Not only would there be a shortage
>>>>>>>> of doctors, the doctors that would be left would be on average
>>>>>>>> less competent and less intelligent and lazier as they would not
>>>>>>>> get paid for working any harder. The brightest students in
>>>>>>>> college would choose to go to another profession instead of med
>>>>>>>> school as they would not get paid as much as they are paid now.
>>>>>>>> Furthermore, all the research and advancements in new medical
>>>>>>>> procedures would slow down or become non-existent as no would be
>>>>>>>> able to make a profit from them. Money makes the world go around
>>>>>>>> and without profits no one is motivated to do anything. Our
>>>>>>>> health system would drop off from the best in the world to a third
>>>>>>>> world country health system.
>>>>>>>> Communism and socialism do not work as money is taken out of the
>>>>>>>> equation and people simply do not work as hard nor care about
>>>>>>>> innovating. Without capitalism, we wouldn't have computers, the
>>>>>>>> internet, or even cars for that matter.
>>>>>>>> These single payer systems are ridiculous and people simply do not
>>>>>>>> understand the economic effects that taking profits out of the
>>>>>>>> equation would have on the quality of their health care.
>>>>>>>> The only argument that people have for this single payer system is
>>>>>>>> that 30 million people are uninsured. But the fact of the matter
>>>>>>>> is they fail to acknowledge the fact that some of these people do
>>>>>>>> not want to buy health insurance and do not care. Under the ACA
>>>>>>>> and the medicaid expansion, almost everyone should have been able
>>>>>>>> to afford health insurance. But some people choose not to do it
>>>>>>>> because they did not want to. How many of these 30 million people
>>>>>>>> really can't afford health insurance and how many of them are
>>>>>>>> simply choosing to spend their money on other things? How many of
>>>>>>>> them on their taxes lied and said they had health insurance when
>>>>>>>> they did not? The fact of the matter is that I am not interested
>>>>>>>> in policing people's irresponsibility. There would always be
>>>>>>>> people who choose not to buy health insurance. Even people who
>>>>>>>> work for employers who provide health insurance at a low cost or
>>>>>>>> no cost decide to and can opt out of the health insurance program
>>>>>>>> if they want to and some of them do this.
>>>>>>>> Do not get me started on people's financial irresponsibility.
>>>>>>>> There was an article in the Wall Street Journal stating that on
>>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>>>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>>>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>>>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> William Grussenmeyer
>>>>> PhD Student, Computer Science
>>>>> University of Nevada, Reno
>>>>> NSF Fellow
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> William Grussenmeyer
>>> PhD Student, Computer Science
>>> University of Nevada, Reno
>>> NSF Fellow
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> acb-chat mailing list
>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>