Re: Why I won't vote this year - or any year

On 10/24/14, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
> The thing is, not everyone can be an activist. And large numbers of people
> require organization and education if an uprising is going to move in a
> helpful direction. And, of course, look what happened to Occupy. It was,
> in
> many respects, one of the most democratic uprisings I know about because
> people struggled so that decisions would be made by concensus and so that
> certain groups and individuals would not be marginalized. But the majority
> of these people were young and educated. And because they were beginning to
> increase in numbers and to be recognized as legitimate by the population at
> large, the federal government dispersed them. The more I read about our
> national security state, the more it becomes evident that it is more
> intrusive and effective than any autocratic state that has existed in the
> past in terms of having the capacity to control people. They don't have
> all
> of this information on all of us in order to stop terrorists. They have it
> in order to prevent organizing of uprisings.
>
> Miriam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
> Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:12 PM
> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Why I won't vote this year - or any year
>
> Well, it is really more important what you are for instead of what you are
> against, but to bring about what you are for you have to do something
> rather
> than vote. Remember the point that the author of the article that started
> this thread made. No matter how you vote the government is going to do what
> it was going to do anyway. That is one of the most common sentiments I hear
> from other people who do not vote too and it is true. The bourgeois
> electoral system is set up to elect agents of the bourgeoisie. It is not
> there to effect meaningful change. It is there to give the false impression
> that the masses are participating while ensuring that they stay in their
> place. If you are for meaningful change you will help bring it about by
> being an activist. Vote in order to protest the system and that means
> casting protest votes. Remember that it is only a protest though.
> On 10/23/2014 9:56 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
>> It appears to me that the purpose of one's vote has got to be more
>> than just opposing a system. One's vote should, in some way, attempt
>> to improve life for the majority of people. If I vote for the
>> candidate of a party whose purposes are aligned with my values, I am
>> attemptint to move our society in a particular direction. If I just
>> write in a name, I'm showing my discontent, kind of like a toddler
>> stamping her foot or having a tantrum, but I'm not attempting to
>> influence what my society does. I'm just saying "no".
>>
>> Miriam
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org]
>> On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
>> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:05 PM
>> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Why I won't vote this year - or any year
>>
>>
>> The point is not to vote for the perfect candidate. You don't get
>> those. The point is to oppose a system.
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 6:04 PM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
>>
>>
>> Perfection? If any individual voter truly believes that he/she is
> the
>> perfect answer to the problems at any level, local, state, federal,
>> he/she is delusional.
>> And the real problem is that what a candidate promises or says is
>> often far, far different from what he/she then does when/if
>> elected.our current POTUS comes immediately to mind.
>>
>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 5:50 PM, ted chittenden <tchittenden@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> If the responses Roger tells us he is given are to be
> believed (and
>> I do believe them), then I'd say there is a lot of immaturity among
>> the voting population. For the only perfect candidate for each
>> individual voter would be that voter him/herself, and sometimes even
>> that is not good enough. If you're looking for perfection in your
>> voting choices, then you may as well go home--nobody's perfect. On the
>> other hand, if you're looking for somebody who is not perfect but
>> whose views and record fit within the profile of the kind of person
>> whom you would like to see make decisions in your stead, then you will
>> find a lot more candidates from whom to choose.
>> --
>> Ted Chittenden
>>
>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>> ---- Alice Dampman Humel <alicedh@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Roger,
>> I like this idea very much..
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 3:13 PM, Roger Loran Bailey
>> <Rogerbailey81@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know where this guy got the idea that it is
> so heretical to
>> not vote and to admit to it. Most of the people I know do not vote and
>> have no problem admitting it. I forget the statistics on the
>> percentage of eligible voters who do not vote, but I remember that it
>> is very high. The bourgeois press portrays this tendency to not vote
>> as apathy, but almost no one among the people I talk to express apathy
>> when I ask them why they do not vote. What they express is disgust
>> with the choices they are given and the reason given in this article
>> is also very common. That is, why should I vote when the government is
>> going to do what it is going to do whether I vote or not. I can only
>> say that I very well understand the reasons for not voting and I don't
>> disagree with them. What I disagree with is the decision not to vote.
>> I urge, instead, voting for candidates that are not the choices the
>> bourgeoisie offers you. If no such choice is on the ballot then write
>> it in. If you don't know of any such choice then write in your own
>> name. If you really don't want to vote then turn in a blank or spoiled
>> ballot. The reason I urge this is because such actions are going to be
>> a lot harder for the bourgeois press to depict as apathy. Of course
>> they will ignore you. However, if large numbers of people do what I
>> urge it will become harder to ignore. That is one big problem I have
>> with the Revolutionary Communist Party. They don't just express
>> disgust with the choices and decline to vote. They actively campaign
>> for what they call the revolutionary act of not voting. Sorry, but a
>> lot of people, if not most, already do exactly what they urge and it is
> always depicted as apathy. They would do a lot better if they would
> campaign
> for turning in spoiled ballots.
>> On 10/16/2014 1:26 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
>>
>>
>> Interesting article.
>> I understand where Michael Malice is coming
> from, but I do not
>> agree
>> with his Libertarian position.
>> In fact, I do vote. Not for every position
> on the ballot. Not
>> for
>> one of the two Empire Blessed Candidates.
>> And not even for every issue. I pick and
> choose, usually voting
>> for
>> some unknown name. I do try to study the
> background of the
>> various
>> judge candidates, voting for the least
> oppressive ones.
>>
>> Carl Jarvis
>>
>> On 10/14/14, Miriam Vieni
>> <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Why I won't vote this year - or any
> year
>> Governments will continue to act
>> regardless of popular approval - and
>> certainly regardless of any approval
> of mine
>> o Michael Malice
>> o theguardian.com, Tuesday 14
>> October 2014 07.45 EDT
>> I rarely tell people that I don't
> believe in voting.
>> Participation in the
>> body politic is widely considered to
> be both a privilege and an
>> imperative
>> to the enlightened urban citizen. To
> choose otherwise is quite
>> literally
>> heresy - and heretics by and large
> have a difficult time of it in
>> society.
>> The platitudes I face as a non-voter
> are known to everyone,
>> precisely
>> because they are platitudes - People
> have marched for miles! or
>> Immigrants
>> crossed oceans! The fables are
>> beautiful and they are compelling. But that
>> does not make them true.
>> I do not agree that secretly
>> flicking a switch once a year constitutes
>> "making your voice heard". Nor do I
> think that an annual trip to
>> a voting
>> booth is a criterion for whether one
> can complain or not. My
>> right to free
>> speech is not contingent upon anyone
> else, no matter how many of
>> them there
>> are, whether they were elected to
> some office or however much
>> they stamp
>> their feet.
>> Neither do I agree that the personal
> is the political. I fully
>> reject the
>> Kantian universalizability principle
> that underlies so much of
>> contemporary
>> moral discussion. What if everyone
> acted the way you did? is not
>> a useful
>> means-test for one's actions.
>> I am a pure liberal. I choose to
>> live in Brooklyn, and am very consciously
>> grateful that my friends are as
>> diverse as humanly possible. None of them
>> think like me, none of them act like
> me and none of them have the
>> background
>> that I do. This is a source of great
> pleasure, and I wouldn't
>> change it for
>> the world. Nor could I! I'm not
>> egotistical enough to think that "everyone
>> will act like I do", as if those
>> around me were my mirror images.
>> It is undeniably true that I don't
> have the practical ability to
>> ignore the
>> state. I have to use state roads,
> and if I refuse to pay taxes
>> the
>> consequences will be dire for me.
>> But there is literally nowhere on Earth
>> for me to go without some government
> claiming control over my
>> person.
>> Though
>> democracies are increasingly common
> throughout the world, it is
>> the state
>> that is universal. These governments
> will continue to act
>> regardless of any
>> sort of popular approval - and
>> certainly regardless of any approval of
>> mine.
>> State action proceeds independently
> of any democratic
>> justification. The
>> purest example of this could be seen
> during the 2012 Democratic
>> Convention.
>> Los Angeles mayor Antonio
>> Villaraigosa sought to amend the party platform
>> to
>> include a reference to God and to
> acknowledge Jerusalem as
>> Israel's
>> capital.
>> He put the edit to the convention
> floor, seeking to approve the
>> change via
>> acclamation. Having failed to
>> receive the outcome he sought, he asked for a
>> revote. Then he tried again.
>> Finally, he simply pretended that those in the
>> audience - unanimously Democrats and
> democrats - had agreed with
>> him.
>> George W Bush did the same thing
>> when he sought United Nations authority to
>> invade Iraq in 2003. Having seen
>> that the votes were not there, he simply
>> grounded his invasion in earlier
>> resolutions.
>> A party platform is a minor matter.
>> War - solely government's purview - is
>> far more serious. Yet in both cases
> the vote was a formality; an
>> ex-post-facto justification for an
> organization to do whatever it
>> intended
>> to do anyway.
>> I am not someone who thinks that he
> is "making a difference" by
>> voting once
>> a year. I was born in the Soviet
>> Union and my personal history led me to
>> devote the last two years of my life
> educating the public about
>> the horrors
>> of North Korea. I constantly give
> talks about the situation in
>> that
>> least-free nation ... where everyone
> votes. I'm actually doing
>> the work,
>> rather than choosing a (public)
>> servant to do it for me.
>> Understanding the Soviet Union and
> North Korea gives a bit of
>> insight into
>> human social psychology. No matter
> how absurd the state line, a
>> huge
>> majority of the populace can be
>> found to promulgate it. People will say
>> with
>> a straight face that having one
>> choice for dear leader is tyranny - but
>> having two is freedom. Is that
>> second choice on the ballot really the
>> qualitative difference?
>> Most progressives understand that
> human nature is basically the
>> same
>> anywhere on the planet. Yet they
>> think those who rehash propaganda only
>> exist in other, bad countries.
>> Barring that, they believe those types are
>> all to be found on the other side of
> the political spectrum.
>> After all, the
>> other side is where the evil, crazy
> people reside - those who
>> want what's
>> worst for everyone.
>> The educated aren't immune from such
> traps; they are merely more
>> articulate
>> about them. Frankly I am baffled
>> that those of us who were nerds in high
>> school now defer to the winners of
> popularity contests. There
>> surely is a
>> bit of the guard-dog psychology
>> about the whole thing, barking loudly to
>> defend the system in order to get
> the masters' respect and
>> approval.
>> If pressed, the simplest explanation
> I have for refusing to vote
>> is this: I
>> don't vote for the same exact
>> reasons that I don't take communion. No
>> matter
>> how admirable he is or how much I
> agree with him, the pope isn't
>> the
>> steward
>> over my soul. Nor is any president
> the leader of my life. This
>> does not
>> make
>> me ignorant or evil any more than
> not being a Christian makes me
>> ignorant
>> or
>> evil. If I need representation, I
> will hire the most qualified
>> person to do
>> so. Otherwise, I will smile and nod
> as my friends go to their
>> places of
>> worship, wishing them well while I
> simply pray to be left alone.
>>
>>
>> Sign up for the Guardian Today
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>> Never show again? Close What's
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>> More from the
>> Why I won't vote this year - or any
> year
>> Governments will continue to act
>> regardless of popular approval - and
>> certainly regardless of any approval
> of mine
>> .
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=http://www.theguardian.co
>> m/comm
>>
>> entisfree/2014/oct/14/why-i-will-not-vote
>> . javascript:void(0);
>> . Error! Hyperlink reference not
>> valid.Error! Hyperlink reference not
>> valid.
>> .
>>
>>
> http://www.theguardian.com/profile/michael-malicehttp://www.theguardian.com/
>> profile/michael-malice
>> . Michael Malice
>> . theguardian.com, Tuesday 14
>> October 2014 07.45 EDT
>> . start-of-comments
>> . Congrats! You won a sticker.
>> Photograph: SuperFantastic/Flickr
>> . I rarely tell people that I don't
> believe in voting.
>> Participation
>> in the body politic is widely
>> considered to be both a privilege and an
>> imperative to the enlightened urban
> citizen. To choose otherwise
>> is quite
>> literally heresy - and heretics by
> and large have a difficult
>> time of it in
>> society.
>> . The platitudes I face as a
>> non-voter are known to everyone,
>> precisely because they are
>> platitudes - People have marched for miles! or
>> Immigrants crossed oceans! The
>> fables are beautiful and they are
>> compelling.
>> But that does not make them true.
>> . I do not agree that secretly
>> flicking a switch once a year
>> constitutes "making your voice
>> heard". Nor do I think that an annual trip
>> to
>> a voting booth is a criterion for
> whether one can complain or
>> not. My right
>> to free speech is not contingent
>> upon anyone else, no matter how many of
>> them there are, whether they were
> elected to some office or
>> however much
>> they stamp their feet.
>> Neither do I agree that the personal
> is the political. I fully
>> reject the
>> Kantian universalizability principle
> that underlies so much of
>> contemporary
>> moral discussion. What if everyone
> acted the way you did? is not
>> a useful
>> means-test for one's actions.
>> I am a pure liberal. I choose to
>> live in Brooklyn, and am very consciously
>> grateful that my friends are as
>> diverse as humanly possible. None of them
>> think like me, none of them act like
> me and none of them have the
>> background
>> that I do. This is a source of great
> pleasure, and I wouldn't
>> change it for
>> the world. Nor could I! I'm not
>> egotistical enough to think that "everyone
>> will act like I do", as if those
>> around me were my mirror images.
>> It is undeniably true that I don't
> have the practical ability to
>> ignore the
>> state. I have to use state roads,
> and if I refuse to pay taxes
>> the
>> consequences will be dire for me.
>> But there is literally nowhere on Earth
>> for me to go without some government
> claiming control over my
>> person.
>> Though
>> democracies are increasingly common
> throughout the world, it is
>> the state
>> that is universal. These governments
> will continue to act
>> regardless of any
>> sort of popular approval - and
>> certainly regardless of any approval of
>> mine.
>> State action proceeds independently
> of any democratic
>> justification. The
>> purest example of this could be seen
> during the 2012 Democratic
>> Convention.
>> Los Angeles mayor Antonio
>> Villaraigosa sought to amend the party platform
>> to
>> include a reference to God and to
> acknowledge Jerusalem as
>> Israel's
>> capital.
>> He put the edit to the convention
> floor, seeking to approve the
>> change via
>> acclamation. Having failed to
>> receive the outcome he sought, he asked for a
>> revote. Then he tried again.
>> Finally, he simply pretended that those in the
>> audience - unanimously Democrats and
> democrats - had agreed with
>> him.
>> George W Bush did the same thing
>> when he sought United Nations authority to
>> invade Iraq in 2003. Having seen
>> that the votes were not there, he simply
>> grounded his invasion in earlier
>> resolutions.
>> A party platform is a minor matter.
>> War - solely government's purview - is
>> far more serious. Yet in both cases
> the vote was a formality; an
>> ex-post-facto justification for an
> organization to do whatever it
>> intended
>> to do anyway.
>> I am not someone who thinks that he
> is "making a difference" by
>> voting once
>> a year. I was born in the Soviet
>> Union and my personal history led me to
>> devote the last two years of my life
> educating the public about
>> the horrors
>> of North Korea. I constantly give
> talks about the situation in
>> that
>> least-free nation ... where everyone
> votes. I'm actually doing
>> the work,
>> rather than choosing a (public)
>> servant to do it for me.
>> Understanding the Soviet Union and
> North Korea gives a bit of
>> insight into
>> human social psychology. No matter
> how absurd the state line, a
>> huge
>> majority of the populace can be
>> found to promulgate it. People will say
>> with
>> a straight face that having one
>> choice for dear leader is tyranny - but
>> having two is freedom. Is that
>> second choice on the ballot really the
>> qualitative difference?
>> Most progressives understand that
> human nature is basically the
>> same
>> anywhere on the planet. Yet they
>> think those who rehash propaganda only
>> exist in other, bad countries.
>> Barring that, they believe those types are
>> all to be found on the other side of
> the political spectrum.
>> After all, the
>> other side is where the evil, crazy
> people reside - those who
>> want what's
>> worst for everyone.
>> The educated aren't immune from such
> traps; they are merely more
>> articulate
>> about them. Frankly I am baffled
>> that those of us who were nerds in high
>> school now defer to the winners of
> popularity contests. There
>> surely is a
>> bit of the guard-dog psychology
>> about the whole thing, barking loudly to
>> defend the system in order to get
> the masters' respect and
>> approval.
>> If pressed, the simplest explanation
> I have for refusing to vote
>> is this: I
>> don't vote for the same exact
>> reasons that I don't take communion. No
>> matter
>> how admirable he is or how much I
> agree with him, the pope isn't
>> the
>> steward
>> over my soul. Nor is any president
> the leader of my life. This
>> does not
>> make
>> me ignorant or evil any more than
> not being a Christian makes me
>> ignorant
>> or
>> evil. If I need representation, I
> will hire the most qualified
>> person to do
>> so. Otherwise, I will smile and nod
> as my friends go to their
>> places of
>> worship, wishing them well while I
> simply pray to be left alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Blind-Democracy@octothorp.org
>>
>> https://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy
>>
>>
>>
>>
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