So Charlie, do you like the new Subject Heading?
My objective in using the word, Prostitute, was to engage in
conversation over whether or not all of us are selling our bodies,
minds and often, our Souls under Capitalism. not to get folks backs
up.
So often we single out someone or something we disagree with and fuss
and fret over how we can rid society of such a blight. But too often
we are simply focused on the "underside" of our very society.
We could pick on many comparrisons, but Prostitution seems to get
folks dander up. I always tried to work Sex into my "Attitudes Class"
in the Orientation and Training Center. Students who would normally
nod off, leaned forward the entire class, waiting for the subject to
come around. So we're facinated with Sex. And it's a good thing,
too. Sex is what makes the world go round. Not Love.
I mean, I love my children, but we're not going to increase the
Earth's population.
Somehow we've developed a love/hate relationship with Sex. We all go
about having sex, at least I hope we all do, but when a person decides
to sell their most prized possession, we jump around demanding that
our authorities do something. Our Pillars of our community, the
successful business men and women, our Church officials, and in fact,
all of our role models turn on the humble Whore as if she/he were from
another world. We must stop this peddling on our street corners,
comes the indignant cry. And yet we are just fine with the folks
selling themselves as workers in the Fast Food Chains. The Tellers in
our banks. The small business person, selling their wares from open
store fronts on our public streets. Some of us love our prostituting,
and some of us hate it. But we all do it because it is how we
survive.
The reason we draw back from the word, Prostitute, is because deep
down we know that this is what we are. Rather than using another term
than prostitute, we would be better to admit that this is how our
Ruling Class has set the conditions. Perhaps we should change the
name of Wall Street to, Pimp Street.
And all of us are caught up in this strange method of Prostituting
ourselves. We count ourselves as being successful if we rise up to a
place where we have folks working for us. Now we are not only
Prostituting ourselves to those above us, but we are forcing others to
do the same for us.
Finally, just because this is the world as we know it, and just
because someone will say that this is the most efficient method of
organizing our world, does not make it right. Nor does it make it the
only method.
Carl Jarvis
<CCrawford@rcn.com> wrote:
> Hi Carl,
>
> Thanks for responding and one way to perceive this problem is to
> remove the term prostituting ourselves and replacing it with working hard
> or
> some other phrase that means we expend our talents or something like that.
> Looking at the subject from that perspective, we then can either work at
> what we believe in as worth doing, or simply earn a paycheck. Somehow that
> sounds better to me than the term prostituting ourselves that sounds
> pejorative to me. Smile.
>
> Charlie.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
> Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
> Sent: 26 April 2015 19:17
> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
> Subject: I've Been a Prostitute for Almost 10 Years-Here's How I Feel About
> It
>
> No doubt about it, Charlie. And by the way, Shirley tells me to say
> "hello" back to you. She always speaks highly of you. Shirley Smith
> is not the person I had in mind. But I worked under a Gaggle of
> Directors over the years. Jerome Dunham, Ken Hopkins, Bill James,
> Paul DzieDzic, Shirley Smith, Bill Palmer, and a couple of interim
> directors.
> In my personal opinion, some of these folks felt the job was very
> comfortable, at least two saw it as a stepping stone. Only two,
> Shirley Smith and Ken Hopkins believed that blindness was not a deal
> breaker.
> Ken became Chief of the Office of Services for the blind, and when we
> passed the Commission Bill, he was hired as the first director. In
> his six years at the helm, Ken brought the Commission from an inept,
> beleaguered agency, to an effective program. Without going into it,
> the 1979-1980 organizational differences between the Washington Blind
> and the NFB Office carried over into the Commission. Ken resigned and
> went off to California to McGeorge, and his law degree. It was not
> until 1987 that Shirley took on the Directorship of what had become
> the Department of Services for the Blind. As Deputy Director, Shirley
> had been my boss from the first day she came aboard in 1982. I was
> director of the Orientation and Training Center. When Shirley was
> appointed Director, she asked me to be her assistant director for
> field services.
> We worked closely, and Shirley never hid the fact that I served as her
> Expert in Blindness. I was always impressed at how quickly Shirley
> understood the issues and problems faced by blind people. I've always
> considered it to have been a rare opportunity and a privilege to have
> served under her. So, Shirley and I, along with all employees of the
> Department, served at the pleasure of our state legislature. In order
> to maintain maximum funding,, staffing and place in the small agency
> pecking order, we had to please the Boss, the Legislature.
> In crude terms, we had to prostitute ourselves. While I have always
> loved the work, the problem solving, the developing ways to enable our
> clients to trust, and to believe in themselves, I did not enjoy
> dealing with the Legislature. But like a good prostitute, I learned
> to give them just what they wanted.
> Most of our employees never dealt with the "Boss", the Legislature.
> It made me shake my head to listen to the pompous staff members who
> felt that they must be seen as the most important persons they
> believed they were. After hearing the VRC's tell the support staff
> that they, the VRC's were Professionals, and deserved the respect of
> the clerical folks, I suggested to them that they begin referring to
> themselves as Professional Support Providers. All of the jockeying
> that went on within the Department was a waste of time and energy. To
> our Boss, the Legislature, we were all seen as all of the negative
> beliefs that a group of small businessmen and doctors and lawyers
> believed state employees to be. Of course, they the Legislature was
> an exception.
> I do believe attitudes among staff grew more positive under Shirley.
> me. I did not like Schmoozing the Legislature but it was simply what
> we had to do to advance our clients needs.
> We like to engage in word games, like telling folks that we are Middle
> Class, as opposed to Working Class, even though our plumber makes more
> money. But don't you really think that many of us exhibit all of the
> attributes of a Prostitute?
>
> Carl Jarvis
>
>
>
> On 4/26/15, Charles Crawford <CCrawford@rcn.com> wrote:
>> Hi Carl and all,
>>
>> Upon reading your message, I had two immediate thoughts. First I would
>> hardly think of Shirley Smith who I knew and greatly respected as a
>> Director
>> simply using Blind Services as a stepping stone. If you believe that,
> then
>> I would ask you to rethink what you are saying. On the matter of
>> everyone
>> basically prostituting ourselves in the sense that we expend our bodies
> and
>> minds for whatever we do, is an interesting perception, but somehow does
>> not
>> feel right to me. If your point is that whatever we do, we ultimately
>> expend all we have including our bodies and minds, then I suppose as an
>> abstraction, that is true. However, I need to ask you if you would not
>> do
>> it all over again if given the choice? I imagine you would say with
>> respect
>> to working with blind folks and maybe not the other stuff. Why? Would
>> they
>> both not be prostituting yourself? While literally yes, and yet one in
> the
>> service of others is more than simply prostitution, but rather giving in
>> the
>> service of a noble goal. A difference without a distinction? Perhaps,
> but
>> nonetheless a meaningful one.
>>
>> Charlie Crawford.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
>> Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
>> Sent: 26 April 2015 10:14
>> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: I've Been a Prostitute for Almost 10 Years-Here's How I Feel
>> About It
>>
>> If we move away from Capitalism and stop using money for the exchange
>> of services and goods, then there would be no more prostitution. It
>> would then become Free Love. Let's hear it for Free Love!!!!
>> In our capitalist world there are many prostitutes. In fact, most of
>> us fall into that category. We sell our brains or our bodies for
>> financial gain. Isn't that all a hooker is doing? I worked for 8
>> years in a drapery sweat shop. Trust me, it took its toll. I can
>> still remember dashing this way and that in an attempt to satisfy the
>> whims of Mister Silver. When I sat down to dinner I realized one day
>> that I was shoveling my food into my mouth rapid fire. I had to work
>> at slowing down. When things went right, Mister Silver stood and took
>> the bows. When things went bad, Mister Silver stood and screamed at
>> us underlings. My years with the Department of Services for the Blind
>> have taken their toll, too. Some staff simply gave in to the
>> mediocrity and collected their paychecks. But for those of us who
>> cared about our clients, there was constant stress. And always was
>> the threat of a reduction in force, or a ten percent cut in funds, or
>> some fancy pants new director who was using the small department for a
>> stepping stone to bigger things. As an "independent provider",
>> serving older blind and low vision folks, we are under all of the same
>> stresses. And very little of it is based on the clients needs. It is
>> driven by Capitalistic values. More bang for the buck! How I came to
>> hate those words. And still, understanding all of this, we continue
>> to prostitute ourselves in order to meet the desperate needs of our
>> clients. Being a life-long Prostitute is hard work. And the body
>> wears out. And the Spirit dims. Not as fast as that of the Hooker,
>> or the professional football player, but the scars are there.
>>
>> Carl Jarvis
>>
>> On 4/25/15, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Of course each person's experience is unique. Nevertheless, what is
>>> perceived as a viable choice or an answer to a problem is likely to
>>> depend on one's surrounding culture or subculture. Regardless of whether
>>> one likes the taste or the smell or any other aspect of the experience
>>> as an individual if one lives in central Asia it is much more likely
>>> that one will consider the drinking of horse milk as a means of
>>> acquiring nourishment than will one who lives in North America.
>>>
>>> On 4/25/2015 9:25 AM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't be so sure about that. What the individual experiences on
>>>> his/her own flesh, upon his/her own psyche, emotions, feelings about
>>>> him/herself is different from watching or even being involved with
>>>> the experiences of other.
>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 8:25 PM, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@aol.com
>>>> <mailto:rogerbailey81@aol.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about assassins, even though this may apply to them too,
>>>>> but the level of moral dilemma a first time prostitute experiences
>>>>> depends a lot on prior exposure to the profession. The woman who
>>>>> wrote the article that started this thread probably experienced more
>>>>> trauma over her first time than most prostitutes do. That is, if you
>>>>> grow up with prostitute neighbors and prostitute family members then
>>>>> prostitution is a very realistic career path and there may be no
>>>>> trauma at all the first time. That is, it is just a normal thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/24/2015 4:24 PM, ted chittenden wrote:
>>>>>> Charlie:
>>>>>> 1) While I've never been involved in the sex trade in any way, I
>>>>>> have never been involved in a committed relationship with a person
>>>>>> of the opposite or same sex either. Before you say how sorry you
>>>>>> feel for me, let me tell you that 99% of the time I actually like it
>>>>>> this way--I really don't have to worry about the concerns of another
>>>>>> when making decisions that will affect me personally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) While I've never knowlingly (how would I, a totally blind person,
>>>>>> know someone was a prostitute unless she told me?) met a person a
>>>>>> prostitute and have never read autobiographies or biographys of
>>>>>> prostitutes, I imagine that the same rule of thumb applies to
>>>>>> prostitutes as professional assassins. In the case of the latter,
>>>>>> what I have read in the past is that while the first assasination
>>>>>> was difficult and presented moral dilemmas for the person entering
>>>>>> this profession, subsequent assasinations proved to be much easier
>>>>>> to perform as the professional became more cold and calculating.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>>>>>> ---- Charles Crawford <CCrawford@RCN.com <mailto:CCrawford@RCN.com>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Ted, Miriam, and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think your view Ted, with respect to the legal status of
>>>>>> Prostitution is
>>>>>> most correct. On the matter of objections primarily arising from
>>>>>> religion,
>>>>>> I suppose that would be true since religion is the classic model for
>>>>>> dealing
>>>>>> with matters of interpersonal relationships. From that perspective,
>>>>>> I would
>>>>>> pretty much agree, and yet my view is basically that we all want our
>>>>>> bodies
>>>>>> to be safe and free of abuse. Hence, I cannot imagine that a
>>>>>> prostitute
>>>>>> would see the selling of her body as something she would immediately
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> unless circumstances were to compel her to do so. Sure, occasional
>>>>>> sexual
>>>>>> relations for the sake of the pleasure derived from them, and absent
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> committed relationship with another person is understandable, if not
>>>>>> viewed
>>>>>> on moral grounds, however the sharing of bodies is an intimate
>>>>>> experience
>>>>>> and without the intimacy contained in a loving relationship, there is
>>>>>> something very important lost in the experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope my words make sense and while I do not condemn those who
>>>>>> choose to become Prostitutes, I feel sorry for what cost they pay in
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> having a committed loving relationship with another person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charlie Crawford.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ted chittenden
>>>>>> Sent: 23 April 2015 21:43
>>>>>> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject: RE: I've Been a Prostitute for Almost 10 Years-Here's How I
>>>>>> Feel
>>>>>> About It
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miriam:
>>>>>> The biggest problem with decriminalizing, but not legalizing,
>>>>>> prostitution
>>>>>> is the inability to regulate something that is not considered
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>> legal. I should add that much of the stigma associated with
>>>>>> prostitution
>>>>>> comes from religion.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>>>>>> ---- Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net
>>>>>> <mailto:miriamvieni@optonline.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you read Chris Hedges'pieces on prostitution that I posted a few
>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>> ago? I'm in favor of de-criminalizing prostitution in the same way
>>>>>> that I'm
>>>>>> in favor of de-criminalizing all drug use. De-criminalizing means
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> people who engage in prostitution or drug use should not be punished
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> what they do. Legalizing is a separate step and the pros and cons
>>>>>> need to be
>>>>>> carefully looked at. If you see prostitution as a purely recreational
>>>>>> activity, then legalizing makes sense. Legalizing turns it into an
>>>>>> industry.
>>>>>> If you see prostitution as a recreational activity for men that is
>>>>>> essentially abusive to women, then turning it into a respecdtable
>>>>>> industry
>>>>>> seems less appealing. When a woman sells her body for a man's sexual
>>>>>> use,
>>>>>> she is risking physical harm because he may require some very unusual
>>>>>> activity on her part for his gratification. Even if the sexual
>>>>>> activity is
>>>>>> more mundane, the repetitive use of the most intimate parts of her
>>>>>> body, and
>>>>>> the play acting that is required on her part in order to satisfy her
>>>>>> customers, is rather different from washing floors or caring for
>>>>>> elderly
>>>>>> patients or doing sales work. I don't want to punish anyione who
>>>>>> feels that
>>>>>> she must do this kind of work in order to live the kind of life she
>>>>>> wants or
>>>>>> needs to live. But I do want to recognize that the work is
>>>>>> qualitatively
>>>>>> different from other work, even disgusting work like plucking dead
>>>>>> chickens
>>>>>> or cleaning toileet bowls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miriam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Bob Hachey
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:08 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
>>>>>> Subject: RE: I've Been a Prostitute for Almost 10 Years-Here's How I
>>>>>> Feel
>>>>>> About It
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> IT seems to me we've been down this road before. I'm going to take a
>>>>>> major
>>>>>> risk here and will probably draw some slings and arrows but here
>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>> It seems like all or most of the women on this list are dead set
>>>>>> against the
>>>>>> legalization of prostitution here in the States. I believe that the
>>>>>> negative
>>>>>> aspects of prostitution such as exploitation and abuse occur mainly
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> prostitution is illegal. Legalization means putting an end to street
>>>>>> pimps.
>>>>>> Legalization means that you only serve those customers you choose to
>>>>>> serve.
>>>>>> I feel badly for celine, not because she is a prostitute but because
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> terrible treatment she has received from others when they find out
>>>>>> what she
>>>>>> does. AS a nation, we are surely screwed up sexually. I wonder if
>>>>>> celine
>>>>>> would be treated better in a place like New Zealand where
>>>>>> prostitution is
>>>>>> legal? I see Celine as a free spirit and we'd all be better off if
>>>>>> more of
>>>>>> us acted as she does. She has found a vocation which she enjoys and
>>>>>> it gives
>>>>>> her a good living. Why should others judge her so harshly? I wonder
>>>>>> if she
>>>>>> gets this treatment from men as well as women? IF not, what does
>>>>>> that tell
>>>>>> us about women? I will not try to answer that question now.
>>>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blind-Democracy mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blind-Democracy mailing list
>>>>>> Blind-Democracy@octothorp.org
>>>>>> https://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>
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