Prostituting Ourselves

Like a man running for public office, I both agree and disagree with you, Ted.
If this current system was ever "regulated capitalism", it has become
Corporate Capitalism, and threatens to tip the balance to a place
where it will become a Corporate Empire.
We are at a point where the individual entrepreneur cannot survive.
Many folks place the blame on government over-regulation. But on
closer examination it can be seen that the laws and regulations are
becoming more and more favorable to the Corporations. Big government
is not the problem. Corporate control of government is what is
destroying the part of the Working Class we like to call the Middle
Class. Fewer actual human persons are having a say in their
government, while the Corporate Persons are sucking up all that is
around them. Not to make too close a comparison to the last years of
the Roman Empire, but as the independent citizens were forced into
servitude, and those who benefited became fewer in number and wealthy
beyond belief, the Empire could not gather enough loyal defenders
among its remaining Freemen. It relied more and more on Mercenaries.
Remember, Greed never learns to compromise. Greed's bottom line is
total profit. Like the cancer it is, Greed will always grow to a
place where it destroys itself.
I agree that no form of government has yet been developed which would
protect and promote All people. But I do believe we can work toward a
time when a greater number of our people are involved in the process.
First, in order to even begin moving in that direction, a total
reformation of Human Nature must be undertaken. And that could be the
deal breaker.
But hey, what do we have to lose?

Carl Jarvis


On 4/25/15, ted chittenden <tchittenden@cox.net> wrote:
> Carl:
> While I agree with much of your analysis, I think it should be pointed out
> that no system developed by humans has to date made the working and
> nonworking lives of some a drudgery, to say the least. And the whole truth
> is that, in this regard, regulated capitalism has actually done a better job
> of serving human needs than is recognized on this list.
>
> Marxism certainly doesn't do it. While I can already hear the calls of Roger
> and others on this subject, the fact is that even the nominally Marxist
> countries started out with the intention of being fully Marxist. However, as
> their leaders moved forward with their planned economies and rapid
> industrialization, they faced opposition from the very proletariats they
> were attempting to save. The result was that many people in the former
> Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China, Cuba, and Venezuela, to name
> some, were imprisoned for failing to adequately support the system without
> the expectation of return.
>
> What regulated capitalism has done is that it has allowed people to control
> their own lives by owning and operating businesses that were (mostly) under
> their control. This control, with some exceptions, allowed for these people
> to hire and fire other human beings at will and, to a great extent, control
> the on-the-job lives of other human beings.
>
> I am not being satirical here. The desire to control the behavior of other
> human beings is very much a part of all of us and is an extension of us
> trying to control our own lives and the worlds in which we operate. So I
> will continue to support regulated capitalism even in the face of criticisms
> from other list members.
> --
> Ted Chittenden
>
> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
> ---- Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
> The ramble I'd started, took a notion and went off somewhere by
> itself. So if it wound up on the list, please excuse it. And my body
> is still consumed by some alien bug, providing me with lots of deep
> hacking coughing and a fierce pain across the eyes. What a way to end
> a very relaxing and pleasant vacation.
> I know that the subject was Prostitutes, but in a broader sense,
> doesn't our corporate capitalistic system force all of us to be
> Prostitutes? Whether we enjoy our particular work, aren't we still
> being screwed?
> Perhaps there are some on this list who do not have to answer to a
> "higher power" for their sustenance, but most of us are "Owned" by
> others. Studies have shown that most Americans are not satisfied with
> their station in life, the work they are forced to do, where they must
> live, the people they have married, and on and on. So Prostitutes fit
> right in. If the majority don't like their work. We can write books
> on why people do not like their lot in life, but continue going along
> day by day. The question is, would a different system give more of us
> the ability to move into a place that is more satisfying to us? Our
> Corporate Capitalistic System is most certainly not working for most
> of us Working Class and Lower Class Americans. For starters, we might
> find life more meaningful and even more enjoyable, if we were involved
> in the planning and decision making part of our work. Same is true of
> our personal lives.
> While I enjoy my work as a rehab teacher, I have no say in how our
> contract is put together. We either sign it or look for something
> else to do. At 80 years of age, I've come to a place where I no
> longer frustrate myself fighting to change this need of my "superiors"
> to control me. I simply sign the damn thing and we go about doing
> what we think is needed for our clients. In that sense we are no
> longer owned by the company. But we have not changed the system. We
> live in a world that is built upon control. And the method taught in
> controlling how we control others, is to use negative reinforcement.
> Trashing. Put downs. Belittling others.
> No wonder the majority of us are dissatisfied with our lot in life.
> And no wonder many of us go through life feeling very much like
> prostitutes.
> Carl Jarvis
>
> On 4/25/15, Alice Dampman Humel <alicedh@verizon.net> wrote:
>> I wouldn't be so sure about that. What the individual experiences on
>> his/her
>> own flesh, upon his/her own psyche, emotions, feelings about him/herself
>> is
>> different from watching or even being involved with the experiences of
>> other.
>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 8:25 PM, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know about assassins, even though this may apply to them too,
>>> but
>>> the level of moral dilemma a first time prostitute experiences depends
>>> a
>>> lot on prior exposure to the profession. The woman who wrote the article
>>> that started this thread probably experienced more trauma over her first
>>> time than most prostitutes do. That is, if you grow up with prostitute
>>> neighbors and prostitute family members then prostitution is a very
>>> realistic career path and there may be no trauma at all the first time.
>>> That is, it is just a normal thing.
>>>
>>> On 4/24/2015 4:24 PM, ted chittenden wrote:
>>>> Charlie:
>>>> 1) While I've never been involved in the sex trade in any way, I have
>>>> never been involved in a committed relationship with a person of the
>>>> opposite or same sex either. Before you say how sorry you feel for me,
>>>> let me tell you that 99% of the time I actually like it this way--I
>>>> really don't have to worry about the concerns of another when making
>>>> decisions that will affect me personally.
>>>>
>>>> 2) While I've never knowlingly (how would I, a totally blind person,
>>>> know
>>>> someone was a prostitute unless she told me?) met a person a prostitute
>>>> and have never read autobiographies or biographys of prostitutes, I
>>>> imagine that the same rule of thumb applies to prostitutes as
>>>> professional assassins. In the case of the latter, what I have read in
>>>> the past is that while the first assasination was difficult and
>>>> presented
>>>> moral dilemmas for the person entering this profession, subsequent
>>>> assasinations proved to be much easier to perform as the professional
>>>> became more cold and calculating.
>>>> --
>>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>>
>>>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>>>> ---- Charles Crawford <CCrawford@RCN.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ted, Miriam, and all,
>>>>
>>>> I think your view Ted, with respect to the legal status of Prostitution
>>>> is
>>>> most correct. On the matter of objections primarily arising from
>>>> religion,
>>>> I suppose that would be true since religion is the classic model for
>>>> dealing
>>>> with matters of interpersonal relationships. From that perspective, I
>>>> would
>>>> pretty much agree, and yet my view is basically that we all want our
>>>> bodies
>>>> to be safe and free of abuse. Hence, I cannot imagine that a
>>>> prostitute
>>>> would see the selling of her body as something she would immediately
>>>> choose
>>>> unless circumstances were to compel her to do so. Sure, occasional
>>>> sexual
>>>> relations for the sake of the pleasure derived from them, and absent a
>>>> committed relationship with another person is understandable, if not
>>>> viewed
>>>> on moral grounds, however the sharing of bodies is an intimate
>>>> experience
>>>> and without the intimacy contained in a loving relationship, there is
>>>> something very important lost in the experience.
>>>>
>>>> I hope my words make sense and while I do not condemn those who
>>>> choose to become Prostitutes, I feel sorry for what cost they pay in
>>>> not
>>>> having a committed loving relationship with another person.
>>>>
>>>> Charlie Crawford.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of ted chittenden
>>>> Sent: 23 April 2015 21:43
>>>> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
>>>> Subject: RE: I've Been a Prostitute for Almost 10 Years-Here's How I
>>>> Feel
>>>> About It
>>>>
>>>> Miriam:
>>>> The biggest problem with decriminalizing, but not legalizing,
>>>> prostitution
>>>> is the inability to regulate something that is not considered
>>>> completely
>>>> legal. I should add that much of the stigma associated with
>>>> prostitution
>>>> comes from religion.
>>>> --
>>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>>
>>>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>>>> ---- Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Did you read Chris Hedges'pieces on prostitution that I posted a few
>>>> weeks
>>>> ago? I'm in favor of de-criminalizing prostitution in the same way that
>>>> I'm
>>>> in favor of de-criminalizing all drug use. De-criminalizing means that
>>>> people who engage in prostitution or drug use should not be punished
>>>> for
>>>> what they do. Legalizing is a separate step and the pros and cons need
>>>> to
>>>> be
>>>> carefully looked at. If you see prostitution as a purely recreational
>>>> activity, then legalizing makes sense. Legalizing turns it into an
>>>> industry.
>>>> If you see prostitution as a recreational activity for men that is
>>>> essentially abusive to women, then turning it into a respecdtable
>>>> industry
>>>> seems less appealing. When a woman sells her body for a man's sexual
>>>> use,
>>>> she is risking physical harm because he may require some very unusual
>>>> activity on her part for his gratification. Even if the sexual
>>>> activity
>>>> is
>>>> more mundane, the repetitive use of the most intimate parts of her
>>>> body,
>>>> and
>>>> the play acting that is required on her part in order to satisfy her
>>>> customers, is rather different from washing floors or caring for
>>>> elderly
>>>> patients or doing sales work. I don't want to punish anyione who feels
>>>> that
>>>> she must do this kind of work in order to live the kind of life she
>>>> wants
>>>> or
>>>> needs to live. But I do want to recognize that the work is
>>>> qualitatively
>>>> different from other work, even disgusting work like plucking dead
>>>> chickens
>>>> or cleaning toileet bowls.
>>>>
>>>> Miriam
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Bob Hachey
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:08 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
>>>> Subject: RE: I've Been a Prostitute for Almost 10 Years-Here's How I
>>>> Feel
>>>> About It
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> IT seems to me we've been down this road before. I'm going to take a
>>>> major
>>>> risk here and will probably draw some slings and arrows but here goes.
>>>> It seems like all or most of the women on this list are dead set
>>>> against
>>>> the
>>>> legalization of prostitution here in the States. I believe that the
>>>> negative
>>>> aspects of prostitution such as exploitation and abuse occur mainly
>>>> because
>>>> prostitution is illegal. Legalization means putting an end to street
>>>> pimps.
>>>> Legalization means that you only serve those customers you choose to
>>>> serve.
>>>> I feel badly for celine, not because she is a prostitute but because of
>>>> the
>>>> terrible treatment she has received from others when they find out what
>>>> she
>>>> does. AS a nation, we are surely screwed up sexually. I wonder if
>>>> celine
>>>> would be treated better in a place like New Zealand where prostitution
>>>> is
>>>> legal? I see Celine as a free spirit and we'd all be better off if more
>>>> of
>>>> us acted as she does. She has found a vocation which she enjoys and it
>>>> gives
>>>> her a good living. Why should others judge her so harshly? I wonder if
>>>> she
>>>> gets this treatment from men as well as women? IF not, what does that
>>>> tell
>>>> us about women? I will not try to answer that question now.
>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>>
>>>> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
>>>>
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