Actually, it's a coffee cup...with a saucer.
I suspect that Roger is not going to reach Bob, anymore than I will.
But I do enjoy Roger's rational explanations. We Humans are just
smart enough to be deadly dangerous. Whether we have the IQ of a
genius, like Einstein, or somewhere below an IQ of 90, like Donald
Trump, we are nowhere informed enough to begin to understand this
vastness we call "the Universe". Whether it is the current Pope, whom
I personally think is well above the average IQ, or Donald Trump, whom
I find to be cunning but immature, we see all sorts of wild beliefs.
Very bright people believe that God is a real Force. Idiots also
believe that God guides their lives. So do insane people, driven to
murder in the name of the Lord, God Almighty, or Allah, or some voice
that speaks to them from the radio or the TV, instructing them to
strike out. Each one is convinced that what they believe is the real
world.
But it's all hogwash. Unless we can demonstrate our belief, it is no
more valid than all the others. Just saying that God or Allah are
real is no different than saying that Alice saw a White Rabbit in a
vest and a top hat looking at a pocket watch as he hopped down a large
rabbit hole.
When Human Beings finally come to our senses and agree that we simply
do not have enough information to understand what is around us, then
perhaps we can get down to the business of expanding our information.
In the meantime, I guess many of us will prefer to wrap themselves up
in their Fairy Tales and be happy as they condemn everyone else for
their Fairy Tales. And that is why we will continue to live in a
state of Eternal War.
Carl Jarvis
PS. If you disagree with My Reality, just wait 25 years and let me
know the last time Peace broke out across the Planet. I'll be 107
that year.
CJ
On 8/13/17, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
> Okay, I'll give you a rational answer. The problem with allah doing what
> you point to is that allah is not omnipotent. Allah is only a fairy tale
> character. What makes this rational is that to believe in the reality of
> fairy tale characters is irrational. Now, speaking of rationality and
> logic, I have been meaning to respond to an earlier message from you. At
> the time I had concentrated on another part of your message and did not
> get around to this part of it. You said that the existence of a deity is
> logical because everything that exists must have a creator. Let's stop a
> moment to look at what logic is. Logic is an information processing
> algorithm. One takes two or more pieces of information and process them
> with logic and one gets another piece of information that had not been
> there before. With that in mind let's look at the syllogism you were
> implying. Everything that exists must have a creator. The universe
> exists. Therefor the universe has a creator. That is the simplest of
> syllogisms in formal logic. It is flawlessly logical. However, the
> logical algorithm works just as well with false information as it does
> with correct information. I strongly suspect that your first premise is
> false information. That is the premise that everything that exists must
> have a creator. How do you know that is true? I suppose that you might
> come up with another syllogism to arrive at that premise, but then I
> would have to question the premises in the second syllogism. Ultimately,
> no matter how logical your argument it is necessary to provide some
> evidence for the premises. So how do you know that everything that
> exists must have a creator. Please provide an answer that has something
> to do with it being true. If you cannot come up with a reason to believe
> it then your claim has as much validity as the claim that a paisley
> unicorn is orbiting Jupiter in a tea cup.
>
>
> On 8/13/2017 12:58 AM, Bob wrote:
>> Hello, on each Sunday morning, fellow Congregationalists gather to
>> worship. In the Koran, there is a chapter called chapter of Mary. It
>> is numbered the nineteenthin a typical Koranic index. At its
>> inception, allah mentions when prophet Zechariah peace be upon him
>> desperately implored to his Lord in seclusion. He said, my Lord, my
>> bones have become feeble and my head has flamed with grey hair, and my
>> Lord, I have been never disappointed with my prayer to you. And, I
>> have been frightened with the dependants after me and my spouse has
>> been barren, so grant me with you a grace an heir. Shall he inherit me
>> and inherit from the house of Jacob, and make him my Lord pleasing. Oh
>> Zechariah, we give you the glad tidings of a boy named John, a name We
>> have never been given before. He said, my Lord, how can I have a son,
>> when my spouse is barren, and I have become decrepit with old age. He
>> said, It will be so, your Lord says, it is easy for me, and I created
>> you before, when you were nothing. He said, my Lord, give me a sign,
>> he said, your sign that you shall not speak to people for three nights
>> consecutively. And he came out to his people from the sanctuary and
>> signaled to them, glorify in the morning and evening. Oh John, hold
>> the scripture firmly and We gave him wisdom in his youth. And
>> tenderness from Us, and innocence. He was devout. And he was dutiful
>> to his parents, and he was not disobedient, tyrant. And peace be upon
>> him the day he was born, the day he dies and the day he is raised
>> alive. And mention in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew from her
>> people to an eastern place. She screened herself away from them, and
>> We sent to her Our spirit, and He appeared to her as an immaculate
>> human. She said, I take refuge from you to the Most Merciful, should
>> you be righteous. He said, I am only the messenger of your Lord, to
>> give you the gift of a pure son. She said, how can I have a son when
>> no man has touched me and I was never unchaste. He said, thus said
>> your Lord, It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign for
>> humanity, and a mercy from Us. The matter was predetermined. So she
>> carried him, and secluded herself with him in a remote place.
>> Laborpains came upon her by the trunk of a palmtree. She said, I wish
>> I had died before this and been completely forgotten. Whereupon he
>> called her from beneath her, shall not you grieve, your Lord has
>> placed a stream beneath you. And shake the trunk of the palmtree
>> towards you and it will drop on you edible dates. So eat,drinkand be
>> consoled. If you see any human, say, I have vowed a fast to the Most
>> Gracious, so I will not speak to any human today. Then she came to her
>> people carrying him, they said, oh Mary, you truly have done something
>> terrible. Oh sister of Aaron, your father was not wicked nor your
>> mother was unchaste. So she pointed to him, they said, how can we
>> speak to an infant in the crib. He said, I indeed am the servant of
>> Allah, He has given me the scripture and made me a prophet. And has
>> made me blessed wherever I may be, and has enjoined on me prayer and
>> charity, so long as I live. And deutiful to my mother, and hasn't made
>> me disobedient, rebel. So Peace is upon me the day I was born, and the
>> day I die, and the Day I get resurrected alive. This is indeed Jesus
>> son of Mary, the sentiment of truth upon which they tend to dispute.
>> Truly, Allah is my and your Lord, so worship Him. This is basically
>> the straight path. The Koran then says, and factions have dissented
>> from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved from the scene of a
>> great day. Each and every denomination has its rendition of who Jesus
>> was. However, Islam presents to the sincere seeker a plain portrait of
>> his genuine account. I am not destined to relentlessly argue. Each and
>> every individual is perfectly autonomous. I am not urging the provoke
>> of a uselessly theological debate. I am just presenting, without
>> stereotypic notion, the Islamic version of the Nativity tale. There
>> are major factors to consider. First, the Islamic story demonstrates
>> in clear terms, Allah's illimitable measurelessly Omnipotence. Second,
>> it enormously honours both Zechariah and John whom Christians call the
>> Baptist as equally, notable prophets. Third, it plainly honours Mary
>> and it righteously recognises her unparalleled celibacy. Fourth, it
>> recognises the Nativity tale while scrupulously maintaining plain
>> monotheism, exalting the divine from bearing a son. Fifth and
>> ultimately, it emphatically exonerates virtuous Mary from the
>> intolerable allegation Jews wrongfully impeached her with. I urge the
>> recipient of this post to carefully ponder, I do not urge you to
>> hasten. I am a caller to Islam. I at the end, want to ask you one
>> simple question. This question demands a clear and a straightforward
>> answer. If Allah is providentially Omnipotent, what is the problem
>> with Him procreating offspring from a decrepitly aged man and a barren
>> woman? Similarly, if Allah's Omnipotence is measureless,what is the
>> problem with Him procreating offspring from a virgin, and without any
>> masculine intervention? I believe that this question is rationally
>> valid and it therefore demands a logical answer. I again, do not
>> hasten anyone to instantly respond. I just am urging you to think
>> properly. Here is Bob greeting you, peace, blessings and much respect
>> from me.
>>
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