Re: [blind-democracy] Re: What would you do with something like this?

This is great! A topic we can all have an opinion on, and each of us
is exactly right. Of course there are hereditary factors that come
into play, like, you can't train a Mastiff to behave like a lap dog.
Unless you have one heck of a big lap. But dogs are basically dogs.
They come from long lines of human contact, and unlike so many of us,
they know not to bite the hands that feed them. Whether a dog is
taught to be a dog guide for the blind, or a service dog for a
disabled person, or a watch dog for guarding property, or a sheep dog
that herds the flock, the major difference is in the training. Sure,
generations of selective breeding has made it easier to train
different breeds for specific tasks, but keep in mind what happens
when a dog is not trained at all. When I was a boy during WW II,
German Shepard's were considered to be killer dogs. They were used by
the Germans as attack dogs, among other tasks. Bright and aggressive.
After the war lots of young macho guys made pets out of this breed,
both as personal guard animals, but also to demonstrate their
machoness. On several occasions I was either bitten or threatened by
out of control German Shepard's. Yet this was the breed selected by
Guide Dogs for their use in serving the needs of the blind.
Because of their high intelligence, they trained easily and remained
trained even under total neglect by their blind companions. The same
is true of any large breed of dog. Pit Bulls for example, are said to
be bred as fighting animals. Yet over the years I have known many
gentle, playful Pit Bulls. I also had a neighbor whose vicious Pit
Bull would break off his unbreakable chain and terrorize the
neighborhood. Once he chased the fellow across the street up a
ladder, climbing halfway up before his poorly trained owner got him
down. Another time I rescued a young woman pushing a stroller with
her baby, shouting for her to run into my house before the dog reached
them. We just slammed the door in the teeth of that monster. I
called the police and they dispatched a 90 pound lady cop who sat in
her car and honked her horn until the dog ran through the hedge and
into its yard. I was so mad that I called the police station and
ranted. After all the complaints regarding that dog, and they send
one officer, unarmed except with a gun, to defuse that wild mutt? And
the dog outweighed her! They ordered, for about the tenth time, that
our neighbor keep his dog on an unbreakable chain. But here's an
interesting sidelight. When the neighbor was in his yard, his dog was
off the leash and totally obedient. They could be inches from the
sidewalk as I passed by, and that dog simply stared at me without
moving a muscle. But I could read his mind!
Rusty lived behind us. An even bigger Pit Bull. We were tearing down
an old fence between our yards, when Rusty and his family returned
from shopping. Arms full of packages, the mother and her two
youngsters turned for just a second. Rusty saw Cathy and me standing
at the back of our yard. Like a brown streak, Rusty launched himself
over the downed fence and hit Cathy squarely in the chest, knocking
her to the ground. With forefeet on her chest Rusty began licking
Cathy's face.
Two big Pit Bulls, one well trained as a guard dog and the other
raised with love and not much in the way of discipline.
I must admit that I am not a good dog trainer. I spoil them, much as
I spoiled my children. But animals respond to love and gentleness.
Yes, my son-in-law has a Border Collie that instinctively herds most
anything herdable. He also loves to swim and to run. And he barks at
anything passing "his" yard. But he is so well trained that he can be
in a full leap and turn around if ordered to.
For people like me, which i suspect is most of us, I think we should
have to provide professional training for any medium or large dogs.
Again, the few "half breed" wolves and coyotes I've seen were well
trained and as obedient as any dog. Would I trust them around my 2
year old(assuming that this 82 year old fellow had a 2 year old
child)? No way. I have also seen the most well trained dogs snap
instinctively. One time, when I was running the Business Enterprises
training cafeteria, I was delivering a tray to a customer who had a
dog guide tucked under his table. That is, all of the dog except his
bushy tail. My foot came down on that tail and the teeth caught my
pants leg almost at the same moment. But that is probably what I
would have done if someone had stepped on my tail. No, small children
have so much trust built in to them that they assume they can do to
Fido what they do to their big fuzzy Panda Bear. And a poke in the
eye with some sharp object hurts just as much to a gentle dog as to a
vicious one. But we do like to lump things together and react to the
lump. Even so I repeat, professional training will resolve most dogs
behavior issues. And Wolves and Coyotes, too. But forget hugging
Grizzly Bears. Grizzly Bears are to adults what Big Dogs are to small
children.

Carl Jarvis




On 11/7/17, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
>
> German Shepherds are probably the most common breeds used for guide dogs
> of all. Labrador retrievers coming up second. And every German Shepherd
> I have ever encountered, guide dog or not, has been pretty gentle. It is
> those dogs that were bred especially for fighting, like the pit bulls,
> that you have to watch out for.
> On 11/6/2017 10:34 AM, MARY CONVY wrote:
>>
>> re German Shephards, the exception does not prove the rule.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>> <blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org> on behalf of Miriam Vieni
>> <miriamvieni@optonline.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 6, 2017 10:04 AM
>> *To:* blind-democracy@freelists.org
>> *Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: What would you do with something like
>> this?
>>
>> Well, my friend had a German Shepherd guide dog who was one of the
>> sweetest, gentlest dogs I've ever known. I have, however, known some
>> who were overly protective of their owners.
>>
>> Miriam
>>
>> *From:* blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>> [mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *MARY CONVY
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 06, 2017 8:12 AM
>> *To:* blind-democracy@freelists.org
>> *Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: What would you do with something like
>> this?
>>
>> A woman in my neighborhood who is a police K-9 trainer says no German
>> Shepherd should be a house pet, let alone some half wolf/coyote. They
>> were bred to be working guard dogs and have that instinct, no matter
>> how much training you do. And to try to train their natural instincts
>> out is cruel.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>> <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org>
>> <blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>> <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org>> on behalf of Roger
>> Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org
>> <mailto:dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 5, 2017 9:22 PM
>> *To:* blind-democracy@freelists.org
>> <mailto:blind-democracy@freelists.org>; Carl Jarvis
>> *Subject:* [blind-democracy] Re: What would you do with something like
>> this?
>>
>>
>> Half is a pretty big percentage. If they are really gentle I would say
>> that you are lucky. Half wolves and half coyotes and certainly full
>> blooded ones can be quite dangerous even if they were raised by humans
>> from infancy. And they present a dilemma too. If they have been raised
>> by humans you can't just release them back into the wild. They would
>> never survive. I remember reading about how some Alaska natives used to
>> prevent chronic inbreeding in their dogs. In small wilderness
>> communities it was not possible to completely prevent inbreeding, but
>> they did have a way of getting some wolf genes into the population. They
>> would tie up a female dog in heat in the woods and watch from a blind.
>> When a wolf came up to mate with her they would watch and then shoot the
>> wolf before it could attack the dog after mating. The litter would be
>> half wolves, of course. They would then watch the puppies and pick out
>> the gentlest ones and kill the more vicious ones. After several
>> generations of this they could trust the remaining puppies and not have
>> to watch so closely for viciousness. The half breeds are, of course,
>> more trustworthy than a full wolf, but those wolf genes have to be
>> watered down for one or two more generations before you can be really
>> confident about them. I would say that if the Facebook guy really has a
>> coyote he had better keep it chained up if there are small dogs or cats
>> in the neighborhood and the first time it loses its temper with him he
>> stands a good chance of getting a pretty bad bite.
>> On 11/5/2017 8:59 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
>> > Properly trained, a coyote can be a fine companion. They, like
>> > wolves, are very bright animals. I had a "half breed", half coyote
>> > and half some sort of Russian dog. She was a gentle pet. One of our
>> > clients has a half wolf, half collie or sheep dog. It looks very wolf
>> > like, but is also a gentle animal. In fact, he is trained to be our
>> > client's companion dog.
>> > It's mostly in the training, but some dogs resist training. I know
>> > that the dogs used by the Dog Guide Schools are carefully selected,
>> > and some are turned back due to their inability to meet the required
>> > standards.
>> > While I am not a good dog trainer, I do make a good dog companion once
>> > the dog has been professionally trained. I'm a firm proponent of
>> > insisting that all dogs over 30 pounds be professionally trained.
>> >
>> > Carl Jarvis
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/5/17, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org
>> <mailto:dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>> wrote:
>> >> There is a guy on Facebook who says that his wife brought home a puppy
>> >> that she found. She said that it had been abandoned and that she found
>> >> it in the weeds on the side of the road. They decided to adopt it and
>> >> went through the whole procedure of getting its vaccinations and dog
>> >> tags and so forth. But he says that the older it gets the more he is
>> >> thinking that it doesn't act quite right and it doesn't look quite
>> >> right. He is getting more and more suspicious that his wife brought
>> home
>> >> a coyote. I wish I could see the picture. Several people have
>> >> commented
>> >> and a couple say that it looks a lot like pictures of coyotes that
>> >> they
>> >> have seen.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>