Drawing the Wrong Lessons From Selma About America Today?

Ted and All Who Hold Out Hope for Humans,
You make my point, Ted. Our behavior is deeply ingrained in our
brains, bodies and "Spirit". Anyone who jumps off our current
treadmill and looks about, can see where our fast track is leading.
If not the end of Mankind, it will be a far different, and much harder
life in times to come. If this is the best we can do, if this is what
we have given up and are willing to pass along to our children and
grand children, then we are trading a little personal comfort for
their misery. But then, this is the budding age of Libertarianism.
The "I'm for me First, Last and Always" generation.
But even knowing that change will be hard fought, and possibly a
losing cause, does not deter me from dreaming of a new and better
world. As I approach 80 years of age, what else do I have to dream
about? Anyway, changing our long established habits and thinking is
not an easy task. Nor is it going to happen through a few marches or
protests. It will come, if at all, by those who care being willing to
talk and plan together. We will need to develop an outreach that
moves under the radar of the mass corporate media. Some movement is
already happening. We just have to seek it out and support it. But
to give up just because we're outnumbered? No Way!!!

Carl Jarvis

On 3/14/15, ted chittenden <tchittenden@cox.net> wrote:
> In some of his past emails, Carl has referred to himself as "a citizen of
> planet Earth." While I'm sure that there are others who think the way that
> he does, I'm also sure they are a minority within the human race. Most
> people believe that their group is either the exceptional group destined for
> greatness or the group that is always picked on, regardless of whether or
> not the claims are actually accurate. This type of group think goes back to
> primitive humanity and has a lot to do with the behavior of human beings
> towards each other. Both American exceptionalism and U.S. racism are
> byproducts of this group identification, and I don't really see either
> problem going away any time soon.
> --
> Ted Chittenden
>
> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
> ---- Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
> It hasn't disappeared. It still exists. Just think about that U of Oklahoma
> fraternity with their little ditty about never allowing "niggers" to join
> and just think about how when Amy Goodman reported this tidbit, she had to
> substitute the phrase "N word" for the slur that was actually used. And how
> many black men have been shot by police over the past week? And talk about
> blow back! There's a reason why Israel has become the monstrous state that
> it is now and that reason is the PTSD of the Jewish people that resulted
> from centuries of anti-semitism and then the holocaust. Novels that deal
> with the holocaust keep appearing and I'm reading another one which reminds
> me once again of how prevalent anti-semitism was in the 1940's and early
> 50's in the US. And what about all that anti-immigrant hysteria? What is it
> if not prejudice against people from Central and South America? And what
> about the woman who pushed the Hindu man off a NY subway platform to his
> death the other day because she hates Muslims? What are the attacks on
> Muslims and the burning of mosques if not racism? Why did Americans mourn
> for the deaths of little white children in Sandy Hook and give not a
> thought
> to 500 dead children in Gaza or the innumerable childre murdered by our
> drones throughout the Mid East? And why is it that several years ago when
> someone who had been very close to me and became extremely angry at me,
> chose what he thought would be the most devastating insult he could aim at
> me which was, "You don't even act as if you know whether you're black or
> white!"?
>
> Miriam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
> Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 12:46 PM
> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Drawing the Wrong Lessons From Selma About America Today?
>
> Like goldfish, we swim about in the same polluted water. How can anyone
> say
> they have never had Racial Prejudice?
> I was six years old when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. I grew up on words
> like, "Jap", and "Krauts", and worse. And as I've already mentioned in
> prior posts, I grew up in an all white world where my school mates tossed
> off racial slurs as if they were the accepted terms.
> In fact, even Jews and Catholics came under the sharp tongues of these pure
> Protestant children. As sons and daughters of Junior Executives, these
> were
> the Blessed future leaders of our community. Now that they are my age, do
> you think most of them have changed their spots? More likely, they have
> passed their biases and prejudices along to their children and grand
> children. Coming from successful families, financially successful, I mean,
> why would they alter their beliefs?
> What they have done is to learn to fend off close scrutiny by hiding their
> true feelings. Is America less prejudiced today than 50 years ago? Or 100
> years ago? As long as our Ruling Class is mostly White Males, descendants
> of White European Males, the deep seated prejudices will remain. They will
> constantly change shape and take on different names, but prejudice will not
> go away quickly.
> Carl Jarvis
>
>
> On 3/13/15, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@aol.com> wrote:
>> It is interesting that my experience is a bit different. I grew up in
>> an all white neighborhood myself and, except for a couple of teachers,
>> I had no experience with Black people until I started college. By the
>> way, that does not mean after I left high school because I was an
>> advanced placement student who started college before I graduated from
>> high school. It did not take long until I would have regarded not
>> having Black people around to be an abnormal situation. However, it
>> was a bit of a culture shock at first. I have never claimed to not be
>> a racist because, for one thing, I have seen other white people make
>> that claim while at the same time they virtually exuded racism and it
>> is more the role of the likely victim of racism to determine whether
>> there is actually racism. For another thing, that initial culture
>> shock can also be described as ignorance and in retrospect some of
>> that ignorance I now see as things that could very well be interpreted
>> as racism. I have always taken the stance that I will try my best not
>> to be and let the victims of racism decide if I succeed. I think that
>> my greatest success in trying not to be racist came when I passed the
>> point of trying and just quit trying. That is, when a behavior or
>> attitude just comes naturally without trying you have likely
>> accomplished what you are trying to accomplish. I think that point was
>> driven home to me one time when I was on the phone with a certain
>> Black woman. We were discussing the subject of racism and I told her
>> that I never claim not to be a racist. She actually laughed at me. She
>> then said, "There's not a racist bone in your body." I will have to
>> admit that made my day. I asked her when she figured that out and she
>> said that it was about the first time I met her and even though I
>> wasn't even thinking about it she decided to head off any ideas I
>> might have had about her figuring it out by telling me that it was
>> well before I had visited her in her bedroom. I am sure that my
>> grandfather who was at one time a member of the Ku Klux Klan would be
> completely upset by me.
>>
>> On 3/13/2015 3:37 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> Of course, I remember the same world as you do. But what is really
>>> interesting is that because I grew up in New York City, the racial
>>> reality for me was somewhat altered. Our neighborhoods were
>>> absolutely segregated, but they were contiguous. So, for example,
>>> when I took the bus to college, we rode through a black neighborhood
>>> and if the bus stopped in that neighborhood, I saw black people. I
>>> rode on the subways and I spent time in Manhattan so there were
>>> always black people in my world, but not in my personal world. I
>>> think that I mentioned on this list, that the high school I attended
>>> was not in my neighborhood. I had to attend the closest high school
>>> that had a sight conservation class and that high school happened to
>>> be one of the schools mentioned in one of our newspapers as the
>>> toughest in New York City. It was on eighteenth street between eighth
>>> and ninth avenues in Manhattan. The majority of its students were
>>> black and Puerto Rican and only a minority of students were
>>> academically oriented and participated in activities like the school
>>> newspaper or the drama club. It took me about a year in that school
>>> before I connected with that small group of kids, so the first year
>>> was complete and utter culture shock. The first friend that I made
>>> during that year was black. I remember telling my father that I
>>> wanted to invite her home to visit, but I didn't feel like I could
>>> because there were no black people in our neighborhood. My father,
>>> assured me that I could, but I wasn't brave enough. Then, later that
>>> first year, the two of us became friendly with a white girl who was
>>> the daughter of a high ranking military officer who lived on a
>>> military base on an island, located just off the shore of Manhattan
>>> at the time. That girl wanted to invite the two of us to her house,
>>> but her mother said that she could only invite me because if our
>>> black friend came, she might feel uncomfortable. Why?
>>> Because
>>> they had a black maid. By that time, I knew this was wrong and crazy,
>>> but I did accept the invitation. It never occurred to me to refuse on
>>> principle.
>>> Any white American who is deluded enough to believe that he or she
>>> has managed to remain free of racism, given the society in which we
>>> live, should re-examine his or her life and attitudes.
>>>
>>> Miriam
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 12:18 PM
>>> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
>>> Subject: Drawing the Wrong Lessons From Selma About America Today?
>>>
>>> Jason L. Riley trots out the statistics to prove that minorities really
>>> didn't have it so bad back in the 40's through the 60's. His facts
>>> show
>>> Black Americans integrating and finding work at a much faster pace than
>>> today, despite all the regulations by Liberal Government.
>>> So, I don't have a bunch of studies to point to. All I have are my
>>> memories
>>> of those times. I was 20 in 1955 when I dropped out of college for the
>>> first time. I remember the big fight at the University of Washington
>>> over
>>> allowing a couple of Negroes on the varsity team. Both were superb
>>> athletes, but their color caused criticism, even though after the coach
>>> insisted they play, they became the backbone of the team.
>>> I saw virtually no Black students among the some 30 thousand students
>>> attending the U. in 1955. In down town Seattle, I was startled when I
>>> saw
>>> the first Black person walking along the sidewalk in front of the Bon
>>> Marche
>>> department store. I recall about the same time when I almost fell back
>>> off
>>> the steps of the city bus because I found myself looking into the Black
>>> face
>>> of the driver. The first Black bus driver in the city. Along the same
>>> time
>>> I was stopped in my tracks when I saw a White woman walking arm in arm
>>> with
>>> a Black man. Everybody on that street turned and glared at the couple.
>>> Looking back I have to admire their guts.
>>> When my first wife and I went house hunting in 1962, Red Lining was a
>>> common
>>> practice. Black families were never shown houses in certain areas. In
>>> fact, that was most areas outside the Central Area. I had no Black
>>> school
>>> teachers or professors. No Black doctors or nurses during my several
>>> stays
>>> in hospitals, while undergoing eye surgery.
>>> No Black mail carriers until well into the 70's. No Black janitors in
>>> any
>>> of the schools I attended. No Persons of Color in any of the several
>>> churches I attended. Around 1963, a young couple, both Junior High
>>> School
>>> teachers, moved themselves and their two sweet little daughters into our
>>> neighborhood. What an uproar! "Just you watch", my father-in-law told
>>> me,
>>> "property prices are going to go down the toilet and those Negroes will
>>> take
>>> over the neighborhood". By the way, this couple kept the neatest yard
>>> on
>>> the block. One day I looked out the window and saw the two girls
>>> walking,
>>> hand in hand, up the road to the Evangelical Church, the same church my
>>> wife
>>> and I attended. Our Christian brothers and sisters turned a solid cold
>>> shoulder to those two little girls. They came another couple of
>>> Sundays,
>>> and then stopped.
>>> Another time I was scolded for befriending a Mexican fellow who came and
>>> sat
>>> in the back pew. He was given the entire pew. It was Thanksgiving, so
>>> my
>>> wife and I invited him to join us for dinner. He did. And in return he
>>> insisted on doing our yard work without pay.
>>> We insisted, but he said to give it to the poor. When he did not attend
>>> again, I told my wife I was no longer a member of that church.
>>> The pastor and I had several long discussions, and he was a good, caring
>>> man, but he was unable to bring himself to challenge the Board of
>>> Trustees.
>>> And I almost forgot Al. Al was a talented Black musician, a transfer to
>>> Ballard high school in 1953. He had a band, and played several of the
>>> local
>>> nightspots. No one ever checked Al to see if he was old enough to play
>>> in
>>> those taverns. Al was Ballard's only Black student.
>>> We also had one Asian girl, one Mexican girl and one Native Alaskan
>>> Indian
>>> boy. Everyone else was pure European descent. Mostly sons and
>>> daughters
>>> of
>>> Norwegian and Swede fishermen and mill workers.
>>> So my elder sister invited Al to our Halloween Party in 1953. About two
>>> days later my best friend in high school came to the house and asked if
>>> he
>>> could speak to me in private. He told me that he was speaking for "the
>>> group", and they wanted me to know that next time we planned to have Al
> at
>>> a
>>> party, they would appreciate knowing in advance, so they could refuse to
>>> attend.
>>> As I said, I have no statistics to trot out, but that's the world I grew
>>> up
>>> in. There was blatant discrimination. Not only toward Persons of
>>> Color,
>>> but toward women, too. Why would Jason L. Riley and others try to sell
> us
>>> a
>>> different, Make Believe World? We were, and we are a very prejudiced
>>> people. And we will not change easily.
>>> Especially if we continue to deny it. Let's quit pretending that by
>>> changing names, and situations that things are better.
>>> And by the way, calling the Obama administration Liberal, is one more
>>> big,
>>> fat old Fairy Tale.
>>>
>>> Carl Jarvis
>>>
>>>
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