Re: Tom Atchison, hand in hand with God

Does it matter? In the short haul, no. But in the larger scheme of
things, it really does matter. Let's say that you are extremely
wealthy. A multibillionaire. You hire a few folks to go out to the
community and find those folks who are down on their luck, and offer
them help. But of course the help, which is substantial, comes with a
string. To receive your help, and to continue to receive it, these
folks must pledge to uphold you as their Savior. Their hero.
Everywhere they go they must sing your praises. Any time they hear a
negative word spoken about you, they will defend your good name and
drive the offender away.
Over the years these people prosper and multiply. But as time passes,
you become eager to acquire more and more followers, and more and more
wealth. And so, to make a long boring story shorter, you begin to
pressure, to bully your followers to become more aggressive. Still,
you are going about doing good, even to those who do not want your
good. But you have carefully made certain that your loyal followers
have been so rewarded and so conditioned, that they will never turn on
you, no matter what.
Soon it is not enough for your people to spread the good news, they
now must insist that the people they talk to accept your help. As
time passes, the ways they "invite" folks to accept your ways become
more and more akin to bullying.
We might say that these people are still going forward trying to help
others, but the others no longer want that help. Your followers can
see that they are meeting with resistance, but they continue to push,
because they are loyal to you. Now, instead of questioning what they
are doing, and to what purpose, they have become mindless puppets. If
we do not teach our children to think for themselves, to respect and
like themselves, to respect and like others, to never become mindless
robots, we will have failed them.
Without the training and the tools to think and act on their own, they
will lose the ability to make decisions on their own.
Tell me, is doing good because the Master says it is good, the same as
doing good because you know that it is?

Carl Jarvis
On 12/29/14, joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz@comcast.net> wrote:
> No it doesn't matter. Good is good. Bad is bad. Hmmm....Mighty manichean of
> me....Smile....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alice Dampman Humel
> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 4:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Tom Atchison, hand in hand with God
>
>
> As long as the behavior is truly "moral," and the practitioners of
> whatever ideology aren't going around bashing people over the head with it
> or burning them at the stake for not believing it or practicing it
> correctly, which, obviously, is not moral behavior at all, then does it
> really make any difference?
> If I feed the hungry, clothe the shivering, care for the sick, the
> elderly, the dying, the orphans, if I give alms to the poor or build homes
> for them with Habitat, does it really matter why I do it?
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ah yes, the "Good Book". Seems that even God is a product of His
> times.
> Should we pick and choose from His Word, and try to create a Plan for
> a Better Life? Or should we admit that all religion's Holy Books are
> the product of Human Imagination? Can we develop a high standard of
> moral behavior without the need of supernatural creatures?
>
> Carl Jarvis
> On 12/29/14, ted chittenden <tchittenden@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Alice:
> After sending in my last response on this topic, I remembered that
> someone
> writing on the ex-Mormon board had taken the time and trouble to
> research
> it. Below my signature is a link to that post and the responses
> he/she
> received from it and the text of the post itself.
> --
> Ted Chittenden
>
> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
> ----
> http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1397288,1397288#msg-1397288
>
> Posted by: kolobian ( )
> Date: October 07, 2014 06:41AM
>
> For Arwen: Slavery in the Bible
>
>
> Hi Arwen,
>
> Saw your message after the prior thread closed. Here's some light
> reading
> regarding the subject. Notice that many christians who are unfamiliar
> with
> the bible will try to obfuscate the issue by ignoring the passages
> about
> real slavery and pretend the only passages about it refer to the
> hebrew
> indentured servants. That's dishonest as you can see below:
>
> Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral
> things a
> person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the
> Old
> and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many
> passages,
> and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can
> beat
> them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
>
>
>
> Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of
> slavery by
> saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured
> servants. Many
> translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or
> "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral
> than it
> really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants,
> that
> doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and
> treated
> worse than livestock.
>
>
>
> The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be
> bought
> and sold like livestock.
>
>
>
> However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the
> foreigners
> who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such
> resident
> foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may
> treat
> them as your property, passing them on to your children as a
> permanent
> inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of
> Israel,
> your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46
> NLT)
>
>
>
> The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be
> treated.
>
>
>
> If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him
> free
> in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If
> he was
> single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he
> will go
> free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a
> slave,
> then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife
> while he
> was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free
> in
> the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his
> master.
> But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my
> children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master
> must
> present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and
> publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong
> to
> his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
>
>
>
> Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent
> slave by
> keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become
> a
> permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?
>
>
>
> The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery.
> How
> can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex
> slave?
>
>
>
> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the
> end
> of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought
> her,
> he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to
> sell her
> to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.
> And if
> the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no
> longer
> treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If
> he
> himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her
> food
> or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any
> of
> these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any
> payment.
> (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
>
>
>
> So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves
> as he
> wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!
>
>
>
> What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat
> both male
> and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die
> right
> away you are cleared of any wrong doing.
>
>
>
> When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that
> the
> slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the
> slave
> survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave
> is his
> own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
>
>
>
> You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a
> different view
> of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as
> the
> following passages show.
>
>
>
> Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve
> them
> sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
>
>
>
> Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so
> that the
> name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a
> Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work
> all
> the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.
> Teach
> these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy
> 6:1-2
> NLT)
>
>
>
> In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves
> even if
> they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.
>
>
>
> The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty,
> he
> refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing
> wrong
> will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom
> much is
> given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is
> given."
> (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
> ---- Alice Dampman Humel <alicedh@verizon.net> wrote:
> Well, I can't see it your way.
> I don't care *what* the alleged motivation or ideology is behind this
> odious
> person's actions, his actions are despicable and inhumane and cruel
> and a
> whole host of other adjectives.
> I think those of us who wish to make this about religion more than
> about the
> outrageous, demeaning, discriminatory, exploitative nature of this
> crustacean's *actions* are actually doing a disservice to what should
> be
> concentrated, unflagging efforts to stop crooks like this guy and the
> host
> of other cheats and con artists out there preying on the vulnerable
> and
> defenseless.
> Having some kind of con up their sleeves is the name of their game to
> lure
> people in, and I don't care what the con is, it has to be stopped.
> There are plenty of religious and other ideologically-motivated
> organizations out there that are doing good work just as there are
> many
> religious and other ideologically motivated organizations out there
> doing
> evil and unspeakable damage. So let's concentrate on those, whatever
> their
> ideology, and stop them from their exploitation, their greedy
> predatory
> actions.
> Alice
> On Dec 28, 2014, at 11:29 PM, Charles Krugman
> <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> and people wonder why I am an atheist.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Carl Jarvis
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 8:24 PM
> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
> Subject: Tom Atchison, hand in hand with God
>
> Okay, so a con artist is a con artist whether disguised as a Wall
> Street Broker or clothed as a pastor.
> But for some reason I'm more disgusted with scum like Tom Atchison,
> the self styled Holy Man. If anyone could change my thinking, and
> bring me to a belief in the Hereafter, it would be Tom Atchison.
> I see a barren rock in Hades. Tom Atchison lies bound to a stone
> slab. One by one, each individual he cheated and bullied during
> his
> greedy, self serving years on Earth, steps forward and spats upon
> his
> naked body. And where their spittle lands, the flesh blisters and
> a
> horrid open sore bubbles up. Tom Atchison screams with the pain,
> as
> another spit ball strikes.
> But of course there is no Hereafter. Tom Atchison has been living
> a
> wonderful life off the misery of others. Dressed and behaving in a
> way that elicits trust from the down trodden.
> Forcing the poor and downcast to work for room and board, in order
> for
> him to stash away a fortune. Yes, Tom Atchison, a true example of
> Capitalism at its finest.
>
> Carl Jarvis
>
>
>
> On 12/28/14, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
> Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org)
> Christian Pastor Finds Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless
> ________________________________________
> AlterNet [1] / By Cliff Weathers [2]
>
> Christian Pastor Finds Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless
>
>
> December 2, 2014 |
> The CEO of a Tampa Bay area charity has been exploiting homeless
> people
> by
> forcing them to work without pay to earn their food and shelter.
> And
> while
> the homeless men aren't compensated for their labor, the
> Christian
> charity,
> New Beginnings of Tampa, often is.
> According to the Tampa Bay Times [3], the charity's CEO, Tom
> Atchison,
> has
> been farming out his residents as indentured servants to work at
> concession
> stands at local events, including state fairs, NASCAR races, Tampa
> Bay
> Rays
> baseball games, Bucs football games and Lightning hockey games.
> The paper says that the men - many of them recovering addicts and
> alcoholics
> - are often asked to work food and beer concessions. The money
> earned
> working there, the Times reports, goes directly to New Beginnings.
> In
> total
> it earned $932,816 in such income last year. Center Plate, the
> concessions
> operator for Tropicana Field says it's unaware that its concession
> stands
> were staffed by homeless people.
> Compensating labor with only food and shelter is nothing new;
> homeless
> charities, like the Salvation Army, have been doing it for many
> years.
> However, this practice requires charities to show that the workers
> are
> being
> compensated with services that are equal to what they'd earn with
> the
> federal minimum wage, which is $7.25 an hour. But by his own
> admission,
> Atchison does not document hours worked. Labor activists and
> homeless
> advocates say that the residents are providing far too much work
> for what
> they're given in return.
> "It needs to stop," Lee Hoffman, a former resident told the Times.
> "There
> are a bunch of homeless people who are being exploited."
> In addition to working on labor crews, Atchison has had homeless
> people
> work
> in telemarketing, construction, landscaping, moving, and even
> grant
> writing.
> If a homeless person wishes not to participate in the labor
> program,
> they're
> charged $600 a month for meals and rent.
> And while New Beginnings refers to this labor as "work therapy"
> critics
> are
> calling it illegal. Even worse, New Beginnings is a faith-based
> public
> charity that gets public money to fund its operations. Atchison,
> an
> erstwhile Pentecostal pastor (the paper could not verify his
> doctorate in
> theology) is vying for the contract to operate Hillsborough
> County's
> homeless program. The paper says that contract in Hillsborough
> County
> (which
> includes Tampa) will be worth millions.
> The Times investigation, which included digging through police
> records
> and
> court records, bank statements and interviews with current and
> former
> residents and employees, paints a picture of a shady operation.
> Atchison is accused of absconding with Social Security checks and
> food
> stamps belonging to residents, even if they were for more than
> residents
> owed to the program. A contractor is also accusing New Beginnings
> of
> overbilling the State of Florida some $80,000.
> In addition, while part of the mission of New Beginnings is to
> provide
> counseling to its residents, the paper found that the charity has
> nobody
> on
> staff that's trained to tend to those with mental illness and
> addiction
> problems.
> The sports news site Deadspin reports that the Lightning NHL
> hockey
> franchise honored Atchison last year as "a community hero [4]."
> See the video (below) of Atchison discussing New Beginnings of
> Tampa in
> 2012.
> [5]
>
> See more stories tagged with:
> Faith based charities [6]
> ________________________________________
> Source URL:
>
> http://www.alternet.org/homeless-people-forced-unpaid-labor-christian-pastor
> Links:
> [1] http://alternet.org
> [2] http://www.alternet.org/authors/cliff-weathers
> [3]
>
> http://www.tampabay.com/news/specials/tampa-homeless-program-uses-unpaid-des
> titute-residents-as-steady-labor/2208350
> [4] http://lightning.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=656477
> [5] mailto:corrections@alternet.org?Subject=Typo on Christian
> Pastor
> Finds
> Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless
> [6] http://www.alternet.org/tags/faith-based-charities
> [7] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
>
> Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org)
> Home > Christian Pastor Finds Ingenious Way to Exploit the
> Homeless
>
> AlterNet [1] / By Cliff Weathers [2]
>
> Christian Pastor Finds Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless
> December 2, 2014 |
> The CEO of a Tampa Bay area charity has been exploiting homeless
> people
> by
> forcing them to work without pay to earn their food and shelter.
> And
> while
> the homeless men aren't compensated for their labor, the
> Christian
> charity,
> New Beginnings of Tampa, often is.
> According to the Tampa Bay Times [3], the charity's CEO, Tom
> Atchison,
> has
> been farming out his residents as indentured servants to work at
> concession
> stands at local events, including state fairs, NASCAR races, Tampa
> Bay
> Rays
> baseball games, Bucs football games and Lightning hockey games.
> The paper says that the men - many of them recovering addicts and
> alcoholics
> - are often asked to work food and beer concessions. The money
> earned
> working there, the Times reports, goes directly to New Beginnings.
> In
> total
> it earned $932,816 in such income last year. Center Plate, the
> concessions
> operator for Tropicana Field says it's unaware that its concession
> stands
> were staffed by homeless people.
> Compensating labor with only food and shelter is nothing new;
> homeless
> charities, like the Salvation Army, have been doing it for many
> years.
> However, this practice requires charities to show that the workers
> are
> being
> compensated with services that are equal to what they'd earn with
> the
> federal minimum wage, which is $7.25 an hour. But by his own
> admission,
> Atchison does not document hours worked. Labor activists and
> homeless
> advocates say that the residents are providing far too much work
> for what
> they're given in return.
> "It needs to stop," Lee Hoffman, a former resident told the Times.
> "There
> are a bunch of homeless people who are being exploited."
> In addition to working on labor crews, Atchison has had homeless
> people
> work
> in telemarketing, construction, landscaping, moving, and even
> grant
> writing.
> If a homeless person wishes not to participate in the labor
> program,
> they're
> charged $600 a month for meals and rent.
> And while New Beginnings refers to this labor as "work therapy"
> critics
> are
> calling it illegal. Even worse, New Beginnings is a faith-based
> public
> charity that gets public money to fund its operations. Atchison,
> an
> erstwhile Pentecostal pastor (the paper could not verify his
> doctorate in
> theology) is vying for the contract to operate Hillsborough
> County's
> homeless program. The paper says that contract in Hillsborough
> County
> (which
> includes Tampa) will be worth millions.
> The Times investigation, which included digging through police
> records
> and
> court records, bank statements and interviews with current and
> former
> residents and employees, paints a picture of a shady operation.
> Atchison is accused of absconding with Social Security checks and
> food
> stamps belonging to residents, even if they were for more than
> residents
> owed to the program. A contractor is also accusing New Beginnings
> of
> overbilling the State of Florida some $80,000.
> In addition, while part of the mission of New Beginnings is to
> provide
> counseling to its residents, the paper found that the charity has
> nobody
> on
> staff that's trained to tend to those with mental illness and
> addiction
> problems.
> The sports news site Deadspin reports that the Lightning NHL
> hockey
> franchise honored Atchison last year as "a community hero [4]."
> See the video (below) of Atchison discussing New Beginnings of
> Tampa in
> 2012.
> mailto:corrections@alternet.org?Subject=Typo on Christian Pastor
> Finds
> Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless
> mailto:corrections@alternet.org?Subject=Typo on Christian Pastor
> Finds
> Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless[5]
> See more stories tagged with:
> Faith based charities [6]
>
> Source URL:
>
> http://www.alternet.org/homeless-people-forced-unpaid-labor-christian-pastor
>
> Links:
> [1] http://alternet.org
> [2] http://www.alternet.org/authors/cliff-weathers
> [3]
>
> http://www.tampabay.com/news/specials/tampa-homeless-program-uses-unpaid-des
> titute-residents-as-steady-labor/2208350
> [4] http://lightning.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=656477
> [5] mailto:corrections@alternet.org?Subject=Typo on Christian
> Pastor
> Finds
> Ingenious Way to Exploit the Homeless
> [6] http://www.alternet.org/tags/faith-based-charities
> [7] http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
>
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>
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