All, Atheists, Agnostic and Others.
Very interesting thoughts regarding God, or the lack of God, what
constitutes an Agnostic or an Atheist, and who gets to be the Holy One
who slaps on the Labels.
Well, since it doesn't make a whit of difference in how I see the
world, the one here or the one beyond, I remain an avowed Agnostic.
No apologies.
And I continue to dig in and stubbornly assert that God is Man Made.
Although in past times a few Gods were Woman Made. And we have made a
bunch of Saints, both male and female, as well as our Virgin Mary, who
happens to be the Mother of God, hence at least sitting on her own
throne. But to the question of how we really got here, there is no
answer yet uncovered. For us humans, it would be a worse problem than
a fly trying to figure out how that pile of cow dung got there in the
pasture.
So the larger question cannot be answered. And the lessor question,
Is there a God as described in any of our Holy Books, the answer is,
yes. These gods do really exist, in the books and in the minds of
believers. But like Alice in Wonderland, they are merely within the
covers of books and beneath the hair of Believers.
And that is the personal opinion of this Agnostic!
Carl Jarvis
And by the way, my middle initial, "A", stands for Agnostic.
Carl A. Jarvis
On 7/19/15, Alice Dampman Humel <alicedh@verizon.net> wrote:
> Oh, I don't know...I've also known many atheists and agnostics, and I've
> also run into my fair share of, well, if not bible thumpers, because that
> really is a pejorative term, then at least profoundly religious, devout
> people, and I think both have their fair share of obnoxious…as I said, no
> one group has that market cornered IMO.
> On Jul 19, 2015, at 8:20 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
> "rogerbailey81@aol.com" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
>
>> But, as one who has known many atheists, I can assure you that the
>> percentage of atheists who are obnoxious atheists is miniscule compared to
>> the percentage of bible thumpers who are obnoxious. In fact, on the bible
>> thumper side it is about one hundred percent.
>>
>> On 7/19/2015 5:49 PM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
>>> I think you sum it up well: is there a God, I don't know and neither do
>>> you equals agnostic. Is there a God, no there is not equals atheist. I
>>> wouldn't call it so much labels as how one identifies one's self. And you
>>> are also right that obnoxious exists across the gamut…there are obnoxious
>>> atheists just as there are obnoxious Bible thumpers and everywhere in
>>> between. No belief system has the obnoxious market cornered, haha.
>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But that is what atheists believe, that it is unknowable. I'm not
>>>> talking
>>>> about the dogmatic atheists who write about their views just as
>>>> obnoxiously
>>>> as the Evangelical Christians. But I've read about who Atheists are and
>>>> what
>>>> they believe. Before I read this stuff, that's what I thought too. But
>>>> Atheists run the gamit. Labels, I suppose, can be deceiving and
>>>> confusing.
>>>> But if someone asks me if I believe in God and my answer is that I
>>>> don't
>>>> know, then I'm an agnostic. If my answer is no, then I'm an atheist. If
>>>> they
>>>> then say, how can you say no? What is the origin of the world? What
>>>> makes
>>>> the sun shine and the birds sing? My answer is, I don't know. They then
>>>> say,
>>>> well, obviously it's God who does that. My answer is, I don't know what
>>>> you
>>>> mean by God. Saying that God does that is precisely the same to me as
>>>> saying, I don't know the cause. But if I'm afraid of how people may
>>>> react to
>>>> that, I'll just go along to get along and say, OK, you're right. there
>>>> must
>>>> be a God whose doing all this.
>>>>
>>>> Miriam
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>>>> [mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Alice
>>>> Dampman
>>>> Humel
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 4:43 PM
>>>> To: blind-democracy@freelists.org
>>>> Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Demon Possessed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again, I think for many agnostics at least, it's not even so much
>>>> uncertainty about the existence or lack thereof of a God, but rather
>>>> that it
>>>> is unknowable. To me, at least, there is a slight but significant
>>>> distinction there.
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 3:44 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But atheists say that they do not believe in a traditional God and
>>>> they do
>>>> not have the answers to how or why the world is as it is. Agnostics
>>>> say that
>>>> they do not know whether or not there is a God. Carl always, in all
>>>> of his
>>>> posts, makes clear that he thinks that God is non existent, just a
>>>> concept
>>>> created by humans. So he is not, by definition, an agnostic.
>>>> Agnostics are
>>>> not sure whether or not God exists. And Carl just said, in his
>>>> response to
>>>> me, that he calls himself an agnostic to avoid confrontations with
>>>> people.
>>>>
>>>> Miriam
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>>>> [mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Alice
>>>> Dampman
>>>> Humel
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:46 PM
>>>> To: blind-democracy@freelists.org
>>>> Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Demon Possessed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cowardly? Do you consider calling yourself an atheist an act of
>>>> bravery or
>>>> courage? Why?
>>>> And if Carl or someone else wants to call himself an agnostic, who
>>>> has the
>>>> right to make him call himself something else?
>>>> Maybe calling one's self an agnostic is an act of courage, because
>>>> one
>>>> admits that he, in fact, no one, really knows one way or the other?
>>>> Saying
>>>> "I don't know" is difficult for some people.
>>>> And if all the different races, even blind people demand to be
>>>> called what
>>>> they want to be called at any given time, then why shouldn't
>>>> agnostics have
>>>> the same right?
>>>> You wouldn't try to make an African-American call himself a Negro
>>>> instead,
>>>> so IMO, the agnostic has the same right, particularly because
>>>> whether anyone
>>>> else likes it or not, there is a difference in the two concepts,
>>>> agnostic
>>>> and atheist.
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
>>>> "rogerbailey81@aol.com" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is what I keep trying to tell Carl. An agnostic is just an
>>>> atheist who either hasn't figured it out yet or is too cowardly to
>>>> admit to
>>>> being an atheist. And that applied to me when I was calling myself
>>>> an
>>>> agnostic too. Remember that I told that story about how when I was
>>>> twelve
>>>> years old I was flat out asked if I was an atheist. Of course I was,
>>>> but
>>>> until then I had never thought of the word in connection with myself
>>>> and had
>>>> only heard it in contexts in which it represented an incredible
>>>> evil. I did
>>>> not start calling myself an atheist until I was eighteen and that
>>>> was when
>>>> someone challenged my label for myself by pointing out that I kept
>>>> making
>>>> atheist arguments while calling myself an agnostic.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/19/2015 9:50 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Carl, You are an atheist, but too chicken too call yourself
>>>> one. All of us
>>>> who do not believe that the world is operated by a God to
>>>> whom we can pray
>>>> for special favors, all of us who say that we do not have
>>>> the answers to why
>>>> things are as they are, we are atheists. Agnostics are
>>>> people who are not
>>>> sure whether or not there is the kind of God that the
>>>> religions worship. My
>>>> husband would never take a stand on the question because, he
>>>> said, he wanted
>>>> to "hedge his bets". He didn't want to be kept out of
>>>> heaven just in case
>>>> there might be one.
>>>>
>>>> Miriam
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org
>>>> [mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Carl Jarvis
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:28 AM
>>>> To: blind-democracy@freelists.org
>>>> Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Demon Possessed?
>>>>
>>>> Ah, those Atheists. Without Demons would indicate
>>>> blamelessness.
>>>> Purity of heart. Strong and able to defend their Being from
>>>> the corruption
>>>> of Demons.
>>>> As an Agnostic, I just can't say if I'm possessed or not.
>>>> Years ago I was at a gathering with my dad. A fellow came
>>>> up to him and
>>>> they began talking. At some point the fellow asked dad if
>>>> he knew the phone
>>>> number for a mutual friend. Dad pulled out his little
>>>> spiral notebook that
>>>> he carried in his shirt pocket at all times. He patted the
>>>> book as he drew
>>>> it out. "My brain," he told the man.
>>>> And so it is, in my humble opinion, with those who carry
>>>> their Bible
>>>> everywhere they go. That book is their brain. If it isn't
>>>> in that book, or
>>>> if they can't figure out how to "interpret" its words in a
>>>> way to prove
>>>> their point, then it simply does not exist. You see, Roger,
>>>> the Bible
>>>> thumpers will miss the point because they have already
>>>> concluded that
>>>> Atheists themselves, are the Demons and Devils.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Jarvis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/18/15, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just ran across this comment on Facebook. The
>>>> bible thumpers will
>>>> without doubt miss the implications. The comment is,
>>>> "Have you ever
>>>> noticed that if there is one group of people who are
>>>> never possessed
>>>> by demons it is atheists?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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