Saturday, October 13, 2012

speaking of the peter principle


Dick and All,
Reliable sources tell me that Peter has succumbed to his own Peter principle.  He rose to his level of incompetency and just sort of Petered out. 
His wife left him because he obsessed over pumpkins.  So he tried his hand at picking pickled peppers but had to stop because of a thistle thorn in his thumb.  Last seen Peter was in counseling.  He believes that he has grown a cotton tail. 
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says

They have all become victims of The Peter Principle!!!!!!
On 10/10/2012 7:38 PM, joe harcz Comcast wrote:
Not to sound like brother Dick, but it has been my experience including recently that the worse the counselor/personnell in VR entities are the higher up they go on the food chain. I think that is by design by the way.
 
Conversely we've had wonderful, even gifted folks in the field but over the years the best of them were early outed, or even fired. And of course now that we're downsizing once again who goes? The best and most dedicated folks.
 
 
I wouldn't be so pashionate about this if there weren't wonderful and good folks in the ssystem....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says

Alice,
And it's very hard to make an informed choice if the people you are assigned to are either lazy or uninformed themselves. 
 
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says

Abbdulah is absolutely right…aside from corruption or anything else like that, it's a crap shoot as to how any individual will be treated that depends entirely on who handles that individual's case. If the case worker is incompetent, lazy, parsimonious, acrimonious or just plain does not like you, you will get nothing and nowhere. If the reverse is true, then you're in clover. Now before the usual suspects jump down my throat and defend all the competent, dedicated, well-intentioned and fair case workers at the various commissions and agencies, I'm obviously well aware that there are many of them…all I'm saying is that if an individual is not fortunate enough to get one of them, it can be extremely difficult. I've known numerous people who have insisted on a change in their case assignments because of such things. Same goes for the rehab centers… 
Alice 
On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:11 AM, "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi,
 
I don't understand  all of this my colleague, but there has been some documented corruption with the Texas VR agency and elsewhere as well including in Michigan as I write.
 
 
In my mind both organizations of the blind should be putting pressure on the Rehabilitation Services Administration to ensure that the Rehab Act is indeed followed which it is not.
 
 
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says

    Hi Joe
 
I would not rather be a misunderstood , regarding texass and organizations for the blind .
I must say that the problem is not in Texass organization for the blind or texass governments in Texas have the problem of people who work for the blind in those organizations.
I will mention just one example , and my experience with the organization for the blind and people who work for the organization .
Here you all you need and you seek it all depends on the person who takes your case !
So while I was in Austin in rehab everything I needed , I had a person who was very sweet and a good person and as a man and was able to provide me everything I needed at that moment through alliance blind .
Then I ran in the Fort Worth and my main case belonged to the Fort Worth Alliance blind , but when I went to Austin to rehab I got another person who also took my case and it is a dangerous fight with a man from Fort Worth to get the what we need is the technical resources for the blind.
From the various experiences through Bosnia and many other organizations here in Texas and I can comfortably say that the government texassa in most cases is not guilty , and a good part of the government grant funding is still blames al are the people who work for the blind association and they are the ones that hinder and slow Assets which are intended to blind users.
I think it was 2000 years. there was a chat for the blind , where I met a nik name from Fort Worth had a nik name shown who told me that a good man who leads the alliance case his  blind and get everything you're looking for even and more than that : I believe that it is happening because occasionally conducting the case can supervise a solution to achieve those goals only if the person wants .
I think if a government commission on finance has entered into an alliance for the blind but slightly higher for the Blind Association in a larger city would find  numerous irregularities that could be called even corruption .
Still many people who work for the Association for the Blind often take a day off and often on sick leave , for example, in my case, when to count the days in a year times how meny.  person who is handling the case , works in alliance would com  blind to the data that is small difference between work days and free days , which are used for various purposes , and the blind association to pay regularly and there's no money for ordinary people who are the beneficiaries of this alliance that would blind or at least should be the beneficiaries .
Joe you are mentioned in a commentary N , F , B, and say that we take into account the people who are leading the blind initiate
these alliances and compared with the ordinary people could view the vast differences in lifestyle and comfort of their grandeur as they contributed to the leadership role or work in the Union of the Blind , and also if it compares to their life or work before the arrival of the Union of the Blind we get a clear picture .
 
Abdulah Hasic.
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
What a nightmare! again condolences!
 
And you are right on in your complaints about services for the blind and disabled in America. It is fast becoming another  sort of nightmare!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
hi Carl
 
Carl I will try answer on your question best as I can.
 
life before the war in Bosnia was more than excellent as for the blind .
But as in every society has its advantages and disadvantages, social structure
each has its good and bad sides .
Bosnia was a communist structure  so Socialist
was found primarily in the country.
As for the blind life was great, everything was organized from the moment you become legally blind until retirement .
I must say the social life of blind otherwise in the whole Europe, not only in Bosnia is much different than in America , there are blind people more active as far as sports , hobbies and otherwise movement and communication with each other is wery good .
Socialni life is much better I think the communication and other life-sustaining activities. yes it Time for the blind school in Bosnia don't have technology that have blind school in America.
normally it depends on the state budget and the economy on the one hand al that I can take notice more people are happier than in America .
I often talk and have contact with friends in Bosnia and make compare
lifestyle and activities in blind America and Bosnia .
The conclusion is that it s as soon as I dispose Activities blind in America almost no about the sport and socializing life between  each other. and the build social and psychological aspects of just hanging out , sports and other  komukativna linking people are healthier and more creative .
You can imagine how I instance a man who was active in all fields , and now I'm more force
to sit and all day  almost no activity .
I was lost vizion  when I was sixth
The sudden rise of temperature , after doctors made ​​a mistake and had 2 surgeries so they ended blindness .
I was  completed elementary school in Sarajevo for blind and partially sighted children's high school graduating medical with children normally see.
started law school and the first semester of the war started where everything changed literally stopped the life in my country .
Horrors that took place there and the things that have happened to me my friends, my family closer and I would not speak further .
When the war was coming to a stop I went in germanny, after 3 years been in germanny I em  coming to America Tx Fort Worth, where caused my nightmare and my struggle for survival in the war .
Just what this fight is another character al end of the same opportunities.
If you are in a state like TX where the economy is good and where you know what the law says and that you do not get  or do anything that you do not achieve your goal:
then I ask you to stop , or what it's called a legal term.
I hope I have partially answered the question though again I say short as short as possible .
 
I know you will ask me when everything is so great , and if it is really so well what I em doing in America ?
but I must say that the city where I was born, is literally burned population killed 1995 genocide has been made .
Just to tell you one of the many terrible things that have happened .
My classmate who was blind was caught by his enemies at his home forcing him to scorch home from neighbors that he did not want to do, and then they killed him.
Another example around the school for mentally retarded children were placed mines and let them walk as children .
Now I ask you, after such experiences , and after the destruction of everything that is yours , where more pressure was placed in the cities and municipalities of the population that is moving or making life difficult anyone who does not belong to the orthodox population, then I ask you whether you would like to return and living in such a society ? .
That would be it short, and if someone interested can find everything on the internet that I would not say I'm sad this is guilty of this or that is better in all that I bring my own personal opinion , because I would not like to be biased , because otherwise it's not even the time when it comes to things cisam participant was so better let people conclude that he thinks is the most better. I hope I answered your question.
If you still have any question feel free to ask me without any hesitation I'll be glad to answer, of course, what do I know  about it.
 
 
Abdulah Hasic
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
 Hi Abbdulah hasic
Welcome to Blind Democracy.  This is sort of like the corner gang, hanging out under the street lamp, swapping stories and wondering what to do to put an end to our boring life. 
I'm a long way North and West of you. This is called the Olympic Peninsula, and is the northwest corner of Washington State. 
How long have you been blind?  If it's been many years, tell us a little about what it was like for blind people in Bosnia and Herzegovina. 
What in the world brought you to a place like Texas? 
 
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says

  Hi
ahhahaha
yes you may why not!!!
I am from Bosnia and Herzegovina.
live Fort worth TX
Abbdulah hasic!
but Language is not Arabic.
Language is Bosnian, Serbian Croatian
and speak German.
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
Hi Sir,
 
Might I ask only out of interest of couresoty your country of origin?
 
Your English by the way certainly is much better than my Arabic or any other language for tht matter.
 
O Soluma Aleikem
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
  hi
Don't worry any of you,
China play good game.
U,S,A move number's offf factory to China and get cheap labor,
this is number 1
number 2 is that many people stay with out job because of company what is move in to china.
What is it?
they are have in china American company  have job for people and don't pay taxes to state and layder
import prodoos
in to U,S,A and get American money.
Now see who is rights?.
Same way happens with Mexican people who com in to U,S,A and work very cheap or some American move company in to Mexico get cheap layber,
but what happen for people who care, I mean U,S,A people:
why they are loos job and pay more taxes and so on son.
 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
Don't worry, Joe…and along with Sylvie and you and Carl and Miriam and many others, I know my history, I actually know a lot particularly about the mills and the textile industry. But after all your rambling, you said exactly what it is about this whole scenario in China that so boggles my mind…the scale, the sheer magnitude  of it. *one* single plant employing 79,000 people who sit around all day and make everything imaginable to be packed up and sent halfway around the world, who live in sub-human conditions in what are generously called dormitories but remind me far more of the residences enjoyed by chickens in your average KAFO, who, yes, are lured into these cities that are purely invented by greed and exploitation from the countryside and who have no idea whatsoever of what they're getting themselves into, even if they've heard about it…we've heard about it too, but we still have no idea, as you yourself said. 
I've actually read several books about China leading up to this explosion, one of which was Factory Girls, but even so, somehow that number 79,000 people all crammed into one place, sitting all those long hours on about 6 square inches of floor space, I don't know, somehow, it was that number that sent me over the edge so to speak.
So you're not telling me anything I don't know, it's just the mental flash I got imagining that many people in so small a space, all with a singularity of purpose, to make crap for the greedy bastards to sell and profit on the miserable,  laboring backs of people suffering half a world away. 
 
 
 
On Oct 9, 2012, at 4:18 PM, "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz@comcast.net> wrote:

Yes and again China is known for developing whole new cities full of well smaller corporate towns.
 
 
Also isn't it ironic that FoxCon is Taiwanese, or at least I think it is in origin.
 
By the way the cheap labor market in china for sub-assembly work is and always has been hard to peg down, but a whole lot of it is actually sub-vended stuff including even sub-let auto (through Japanes companies and even Korean) and aerospace subcomponent production, etc. etc.
 
 
Much of China's labor is also displaced rural agricultural labor disenfranchised from the land and effectively exported to these factory towns and factory cities.
 
 
It is not unlike our early industrial development along the rivers in New England and the development of textile, weapons and so forth often that employed cheap immigrant child labor or women labor from rural areas of agricultural calimaty like say Quebec (thus all the French-Canadians along the Merrimack River including my ex wife) and places like Ireland where these company towns sucked up those fleeing america inthe potatoe famine.
 
 
Oh well historical sketches to the side the more things change the more they stay the same.
 
 
I hope this does not sound condecending Alice for I don't mean it to be so. It is only educational.
 
 
I don't think many even of our generation know much about realities or scale of industrial and manufacturing especially those who grew up in places like NYC after it was not a manufacturing center, or in post industrial New england forthat matter.
 
 
I guess what I'm saying poorly is I grew up in a factory city and though my folks were technically petit bourgious (small business, contractor who worked with his hands by the way) I know the scale, the union activities, etc.
 
 
It was all about me and with my classmates etc. though they had it good in the shops because of the fights in the thirties, etc.
 
 
Carl knows this too through experience, demographics and all that.
 
Roger does.
 
So does Sylvie. So does Frank.
 
 
Besides I've actually worked in industrial settings albeit only for a few hours in a big one like a GM plant. I've worked in small machine shops and in mobile home plants in the early seventies.....
 
 
Anyway rambling here....Sorry and again don't mean to sound condescending. Hope it isn't taken that way.
 
 
I value your artistic bent and I value your experiences overseas and I value all on this list because it is a melting pot of experiences from all different aspects.
 
But, saying this lightly and with a poor comparison I will say I can empathize and appreciate some things you talk about with say music and with fundamentals and emotions. But I can't really totally understand or totally identify with all as I couldn't pick a lick and can't play and haven't played a musical instrument to any effect.
 
 
It is to say those outside can identify but can't fully understand I guess what it is to work in an assembly plant even with good pay, training and benefits.
 
 
Just openly digressing while I await some calls....
 
 
Hope this wasn't offensive and hope it makes sense.
 
 
But the scale in China of labor in sub-assembly work and under some pretty harsh conditions cannot even be imagined by me.
 
 
By the way when I get some time I'll relate some stories about conditions and pay for highly educated Indians in the car industry related to me by an engineer nephew in law....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
Alice, The last employee figure I find for Boeing in the Puget Sound Area(King, Snohomish, Pierce, Kitsap, Skagit and Island counties: includes Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, Everett) is 190 thousand people.  This is in a population about 3.5 million people.
I understand that some of the Chinese factories put nearly that many employees in one sprawling factory complex.
 
Carl Jarvis 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
there's a fairly significant difference between 30,000 and 79,000…and, again, if I'm not mistaken, this was at one Foxconn location, not across China at all the branch plants…but, again, I repeat, I may have this wrong…and my sort of astonishment about this is not relative to the population of China, but rather what employing those 79,000 people here in the US would do to those unemployment and foreclosure figures, even if it were scattered across a few states... 
On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:48 PM, "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz@comcast.net> wrote:

They aactually employ way more than that, but I've forgetten the precise number. It's a huge industrial complex with factories and dorms across China.
 
 
Think scale here Alice!
 
Also remember China has 1.2 billion people or likely more than that by now.
 
By the way these numbers even  in tthe industrialized USA during its heyday aren't astounding ...
 
Our Buick local here in Flint alone had 20,000 active members into the eighties.
 
 
At one time after the demise of places like the old horizontally integrated Ford, River Rough plant declined in Detroit Buick here in Flint at its one main "buick Town" facility did employ well more than the twenty thousand union employees if you also included supervisory...Probably about 25,000 to 30,000 before the robber barons got pissed at a strike over off shoring and the facility was closed around 20,000.
 
 
Anyway I think the 79,000 is certainly on the low ball size for the corporation.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Foxconn workers on iPhone 5 line strike in China, rights group says
 
I haven't read the article yet, so maybe this statistic is in there, but I heard on NPR that Foxconn employs 79,000 people…can that be right? I mean, did I really hear that right? It's difficult to even imagine...
On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:23 AM, joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz@comcast.net> wrote:

Good on them. No matter how much I love Apple products the rights of labor should always be protected.


thanks Sylvie for this and other posts on the issue.


I just wish to add though that Fox Con also is a big supplier to other electronics and other corporations than Apple.

The conditions for workers are also more abysmal than this issue represents too and that goes to the so-called riot referenced here.


Some of the working conditions are not much better than those in the early 20th Century here in the states like those that led to the infamous Triangle fire. In fact exits were locked in that case and are also locked in many of the Fox Con (my term ) plants at issue with workers basic safety at issue especially in case of fire or other emergency.


Joe
 
 
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