Re: [acb-chat] Trump Is a Racist

Good Tuesday Morning, Bob and All who wait eagerly to hear Donald
Trump put his spin on how really wonderful he has made this really
great nation in only one short year! Really!

In fact Bob, you and I may agree on more areas than we disagree. You
wrote, "blind people need to, for the most part, adapt to the sighted
world rather than to expect/demand that
the sighted world adapt to the blindness world and to afford them
extensive accommodations."
It's my position that we all comprise the society in which we all
live. Old, young, male, female, tall, short, and any shade of black
to white. Most everyone has flaws in their makeup. Superman and
Wonder Woman only exist in the comic books.
Certainly how each of us succeed is dependent upon our own individual
makeup. But to at least an equal extent, how society(all of us)looks
at group differences will determine how big the road blocks are, in
our efforts to succeed.
And so far as accommodations are concerned, the fewer the better. For
example, while we use dog guides and travel canes today, many of us
blind people went out and about for generations prior to these
accommodations. As I look about my office, the devices I use today
did not exist when I attended the Adult Training Program back in 1965.
But I used the available accommodations back when I attended the
University of Washington armed with a slate and stylus and a five inch
reel to reel tape recorder.
And the "old timers" gave me a hard time because they did not have the
benefit of tape recorders when they attended college.

You stated, "The sighted world has many stereotypical attitudes about blind
people. One must ask: why is this? Perhaps, it is due to the way
that many blind people conduct themselves via mannerism and/or their
attitudes of expecting accommodations..." This is one of those areas
in which we differ. Why not as easily suggest that the blind people
are simply responding to the societal expectations? When I was young,
the Negroes I met, mostly shuffled and looked down at their feet and
smiled with big white teeth and said, "Yasuh", and "Nos uh". Did they
"create" this stereotype? Or did they use society's stereotype to
shield themselves?
When I visited some friends, inside the privacy of their homes, they
were very different people. And in their Black Churches, they began
Movements that led to leaders like Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior.
I believe that it is important to recognize the "blindness
stereotypes". We need to understand them if we are going to challenge
them, and eliminate them. Simply dismissing them by saying that blind
people have brought them down on themselves is not going to change
anything.
We are members of a small, almost invisible group. Telling folks who
discriminate against us that we are really bright, capable and
industrious people, will certainly have some impact, but it will be
generations before the "helpless, pitiful" label is removed.

You also wrote, "...I
contend that if one is qualified and presents themselves effectively,
they will have an opportunity for employment. That is not to say that
one may not have to have superior skills or more effective
presentation skills over his sighted competitor to achieve his
objective. If you want to call that discrimination, that is your
choice. I prefer to call it reality."
Reality or discrimination, examples are overwhelming as to how
disabling social attitudes can be. A friend of mine, a young Black
woman, also has Albinism. With African features, White skin, and
being a Woman, she has had many barriers placed in her road to
success. For 8 years she applied to teach in the Seattle Public
Schools. For 8 years she was turned down, even though she had been
fully employed in a private school, even though she had graduated at
the top of her class, and even though she was hired by the Office of
the Superintendent of Public Instruction(SPI)to teach teachers during
summer schools. She was elected secretary of the American Council of
the Blind, 3 times. As personable and as bright as you could imagine,
it took 8 years before Seattle finally came around to giving her a
chance.
This is hard core discrimination. This woman had her life put on hold
for 8 years because Society could not see beyond its collective
stereotype.
And added to our collective attitudes is our tendency to blame the
victims. "If only you were not so thin skinned. If you just tried
harder. If you didn't go about expecting others to take care of you".
Over and over we blame the victims for behaving exactly the way we
expect them to behave. How do you expect them to change, when all of
their lives they have understood that this is how blind people behave?
Do you think that everybody is as skilled as you? The fact that you
and I have a measure of independence applies only to our lives and
successes. Of course we might offer our successes in educating other
blind people, and in our efforts to put a dent in the general blind
stereotype.

And so, for this exciting day when we will get told how truly great
Donald Trump is, I remain, with my glass brim full of hope,
Carl Jarvis

On 1/23/18, Bob <buildyourownwealth@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good Morning Carl:
>
> In response to your most recent correspondence, I have the following
> observations/comments/opinions:
> *. Although I was 14 years old when my parents died and I was
> left primarily alone to fend for myself, they, fortunately for me,
> instilled in me that my blindness was an inconvenience for me to be
> overcome rather than a handicap. This has been my philosophy for my
> entire life. Therefore, I reject your premise that blind people need
> an island of protection. In my opinion, blind people need to for the
> most part adapt to the sighted world rather than to expect/demand that
> the sighted world adapt to the blindness world and to afford them
> extensive accommodations.
> *. The sighted world has many stereotypical attitudes about blind
> people. One must ask: why is this? Perhaps, it is due to the way
> that many blind people conduct themselves via mannerism and/or their
> attitudes of expecting accommodations. If you are always asking for
> assistance or accommodations, the public quickly perceives that blind
> people are unable to care for themselves or be productive citizens.
> *. Honestly, I don't remember ever stating that I had not
> encountered discrimination. Prior to my starting my own consulting
> company, I had positions ranging from a programmer to a vice president
> of product development for several different private sector companies.
> Yes, I have encountered what you would call discrimination along the
> way. However, I choose to call it a lack of education by the
> discriminator and accept it as my responsibility to inform them
> concerning their stereotypical attitudes. However, There is a thin
> line between discrimination, not being qualified/a good match for the
> position, or having someone more qualified for the position. If one
> is a hyper sensitive blind person and always expecting accommodation
> or preferential treatment, it is easy to claim discrimination. I
> contend that if one is qualified and presents themselves effectively,
> they will have an opportunity for employment. That is not to say that
> one may not have to have superior skills or more effective
> presentation skills over his sighted competitor to achieve his
> objective. If you want to call that discrimination, that is your
> choice. I prefer to call it reality.
> *. Again, I don't agree with you that discrimination against
> blind people is as prevalent as it has always been. It amazes me that
> you seem to always take the "glass half empty" perspective in many of
> our exchanges. Embrace the progress that has been made and build on
> that progress rather than focusing on the negative. No matter what
> the issue, things can always be better/improved.
> *. To clarify, When using the term special in our discussion, I
> am referring to expecting preferential treatment because you are
> blind. I view your description of yourself as your uniqueness. Like
> a snowflake, everyone is unique.
> *. You are correct: in my humble opinion, I did not put Brian or
> for that matter, you down. Apparently, Brian did not take issue with
> my comments as he never responded. Perhaps, you are just
> over-sensitive. To set the record straight, my comments are always
> directed at your ideas or attitudes. If you take things personally,
> that is your burden, not mine. If philosophies did not differ, there
> would be no purpose for this list.
> *. You have commented several times relative to our supposed
> economic difference. That's irrelevant. What is important is that we
> both have achieved a measure of success.
> *. You state the ongoing oppression of blind people. In my
> opinion, blind people oppress themselves via their mannerism,
> behavior, attitudes, educational choices, and accepting comments by
> you and others that they are oppressed. Mindset is a wonderful thing.
> *. Correct me if I am wrong, it appears that you take these
> exchanges off the list and interact with me directly. If so, why?
> In conclusion, perhaps it is our philosophical approach that creates
> such dissention in our exchanges. Whereas I support decentralized
> government, freedom of choice, equal opportunity for all, success
> based upon your ability to produce/perform, etc, it seems to me (not
> wanting to label you) that you support a nanny state and equal
> rights/benefits for all no matter what their motivation level or
> capability set may be.
> Have a great day.
>
> Bob Clark
>
> On 1/22/18, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bob,
>> Although the ACB chat list is for a wide range of topics, it is still
>> populated mostly by blind people. Because of the list makeup, any
>> topic discussed can be looked at in how it impacts attitudes about
>> blindness.
>> I constantly try to express the need for people on this list to think
>> about how we can alter prevailing attitudes that are impacting
>> opportunities for blind people. I said, "...I am very sensitive to
>> the need for connection and
>> understanding and eventual agreement, if we are going to create a
>> small Island of Protection for those blind people in the future."
>> Since you indicate that you have never faced discrimination, and
>> since I accept that you believe that, I am not addressing you. But
>> over many years of work for and with the blind, I can say with both
>> assurance and with proof that discrimination through negative
>> attitudes, is as prevalent today as it ever was.
>> You ask if I'm more or less special because I'm blind, and you say
>> that your blindness is irrelevant to your perspective of political
>> issues.
>> So first, I am blind, and that is one part of who I am. As much a
>> part as my being male, white, 82, 6 feet 3 inches, 250 pounds, left
>> handed, married, a father, a grand father, a great grandfather, an
>> American, a Free Thinker unencumbered by political labels, a resident
>> of the Great Olympic Peninsula, and on and on and on. In all of that,
>> I am special. I look around me and find no one else exactly like me.
>> They say we all have a double somewhere, but I've not bumped into me
>> yet. But in being special, I accept that each person I meet is also
>> special. And each special person, as I view you, should be given my
>> respect. I respectfully say that I felt you put Brian down in your
>> recent post. You probably do not feel that way. But you have done
>> the same to me in past posts.
>> Anyway, we special people, despite our individuality, do need to
>> discuss how blindness impacts our lives, and what we can do
>> collectively, to improve opportunities for those blind people coming
>> behind us.
>> While I am not as economically successful as are you, nonetheless, you
>> and I have managed to find success in a system that is very oppressive
>> for the majority of blind people. In my world, I believe that it is
>> our responsibility to share with others how we "worked" the system and
>> came out on top.
>> I am a strong promoter of Group Dynamics. While some individuals
>> succeed, they leave little behind them. Many minds create change.
>> So...that's more than too much for one day.
>> Enjoy your success, and I certainly will enjoy mine.
>>
>> Carl Jarvis
>>
>>
>> On 1/22/18, Bob <buildyourownwealth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Carl:
>>>
>>> First of all, what does blindness have to do with this discussion?
>>> Are you more special or less special because you are blind? Another
>>> opinion: your blindness is irrelevant unless you wish to make it
>>> relevant in these discussions. To me, my blindness is irrelevant and
>>> has nothing to do with my perspective of political issues.
>>> Secondly, what is the difference between you stating your opinions
>>> and I statinbg my opinions? Carl, some of your opinions are just as
>>> objectionable to me as mine are to you.
>>> Have a great day.
>>>
>>> Bob Clark
>>>
>>> On 1/21/18, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bob Clark wrote to Brian: "Trump is not a racist. It is obvious that
>>>> you parrot the
>>>> progressive/leftist press and other leftist groups."
>>>> At least I guess Bob was addressing you, Brian. So consider yourself
>>>> chastised and put in your little box.
>>>> What we are looking at, in Bob's remarks is the same approach being
>>>> taken by one nauseating politician after another. "Put down" politics
>>>> may make the 5:00 PM. news, but it says more about the speaker than it
>>>> says about the person being put down.
>>>> So Brian, I say this just to make it clear that whether we agree or
>>>> not, I respect your opinions, and I believe them to be yours.
>>>> Suggesting that a person is simply parroting a line of propaganda is a
>>>> show of contempt. While I disagree with Bob Clark, I have great
>>>> respect for his opinions...wrong as they may be...and believe them to
>>>> be thoughtful conclusions derived through observation and personal
>>>> experience. I feel the same toward you, so Brian, keep your opinions
>>>> coming. When enough of us do this, we will begin to find areas of
>>>> agreement from which to build. As a blind man, and an older blind man
>>>> at that, I am very sensitive to the need for connection and
>>>> understanding and eventual agreement, if we are going to create a
>>>> small Island of Protection for those blind people in the future.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Jarvis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/21/18, Bob via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>
>>>>> Although Trump is certainly not a politically correct individual,
>>>>> Trump is not a racist. It is obvious that you parrot the
>>>>> progressive/leftist press and other leftist groups.
>>>>> I guess that you categorize him as racist because he will not deal
>>>>> with the Dacha issue until a continuing resolution is passed.
>>>>> Democrats have shut-down the government over illegal immigrantrs in
>>>>> contrast to supporting the military and the chip program. How many
>>>>> children on the chip program are minorities? I would guess a
>>>>> significant number. Bottom line, Democrats are obstructionist.
>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Clark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/21/18, Brian K. Lingard via acb-chat <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Ottawa Canada
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Bob & List:
>>>>>> Trump is not the worst person since the Jim Crow era.
>>>>>> He is the worst since the Simon Legree era!
>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:51 AM
>>>>>> To: General discussion list for ACB members and friends where a wide
>>>>>> range
>>>>>> of topics from blindness to politics, issues of the day or whatever
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> mind are welcome. This is a free form discussion list.
>>>>>> <acb-chat@acblists.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> IF you asked me this question one year ago, I would have said that
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> Trump said some horrible things regarding those who are not white, I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> ready to label him a racist. Well, after one year of his presidency I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> ready to label him as such. Just take a quick look at the mounting
>>>>>> evidence.
>>>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>>> The racist in the White House by Renée Graham. By Renée Graham Globe
>>>>>> Columnist. In his first speech as a presidential candidate in 2015,
>>>>>> Donald
>>>>>> Trump declared that Mexican immigrants entering the United States are
>>>>>> "bringing crime. They are rapists. In addition, some, I assume, are
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> people. This was not a dog whistle. This was a bullhorn. There was
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> reason to believe that such inflammatory rhetoric was just a campaign
>>>>>> tactic
>>>>>> to attract a certain rabid demographic. Alternatively, that Trump,
>>>>>> once
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> entered the White House, would temper the racism he has openly
>>>>>> displayed
>>>>>> throughout his public life. Trump's presidency has emboldened white
>>>>>> supremacists. When a neo-Nazi sympathizer at a racist rally in
>>>>>> Charlottesville, Va., allegedly rammed his car into a crowd of
>>>>>> counter
>>>>>> protesters, killing a woman, Trump claimed "many sides" were to
>>>>>> blame.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> earned him wide condemnation - but also praise from former Klan Grand
>>>>>> Wizard
>>>>>> David Duke. At a press conference later, Trump was still propping up
>>>>>> racists, saying that at the rally there were "very fine people" on
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> sides. Again, white supremacists applauded their man in the White
>>>>>> House.
>>>>>> Trump profanely suggested firing NFL players - the majority of them
>>>>>> black
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> for kneeling during the national anthem as a protest against racial
>>>>>> injustice; he pushed for a black ESPN anchor to be let go for calling
>>>>>> him
>>>>>> "a
>>>>>> white supremacist"; he publicly argued with a black congresswoman
>>>>>> representing the family of a young African-American soldier killed in
>>>>>> Niger
>>>>>> over his brusque comments during a condolence call to the soldier's
>>>>>> widow.
>>>>>> Then, asked to consider restoring protections for immigrants from
>>>>>> Haiti,
>>>>>> El
>>>>>> Salvador, and African nations, he referred to them as "shithole
>>>>>> countries.
>>>>>> Make America Great Again was always a thinly veiled way of saying
>>>>>> "Make
>>>>>> America White Again. From his Muslim travel ban to his stated wish
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> Norwegian immigrants, Trump has sliced open old racial wounds and
>>>>>> inflicted
>>>>>> new, deeper ones. Trump is the worst thing to happen to American race
>>>>>> relations since the Jim Crow era. Renée Graham can be reached at
>>>>>> renee.graham@globe.com <mailto:renee.graham@globe.com> . Follow her
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> Twitter @reneeygraham.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> acb-chat mailing list
>>>>> acb-chat@acblists.org
>>>>> http://www.acblists.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-chat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
>>> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
>>> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
>>> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> YOUR HEALTH IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL ASSET!!!
> TAKE THE CHALLENGE AT:
> HTTP://BOB-CLARK.COM
> Telephone: 800-345-9760
>