Protect us from toxic comments about our sexual abilities!

Subject: Re: Protect us from toxic comments about our sexual abilities!

Miriam,

Of course I am not hanging around singles bars, not even sports bars...in fact it's been a long time since I hung around any bar of any sort.  A blind person looking for companionship would be at a definite disadvantage.  The noise level alone would make meaningful conversation difficult.  And since eye contact does play a major role in "connecting", we might as well stay home with a good book. 

Fortunately for blind people wanting relationships, there are many other places to go.  I mentioned several, but it depends on each persons interests.  What it does take is determination and a willingness to become just a wee bit assertive. 

Maybe there is a place for an on-line singles bar for blind people.  Pour yourself a cocktail, grab some chips or peanuts, log-on to the singles bar chat room and go for it.  Someone else can work out the details, like how to make that desired physical connection after finding Mister/Missus Right. 

For blind singles, the internet may be a major way to circulate. 

As for blind men being more able to circulate and have an easier time attracting partners, I agree.  Even the most attractive, self contained blind women I've known over the years, have had a difficult time in dating.  Even in dating blind men.  My spin is that we have this different standard of what we will accept as a partner.  Men like to be seen with really great women.  A blind woman on his arm could be seen as his inability to attract "real women".  Even dorky guys believe that somehow good looking women will flop over for them.  But date a blind girl?  What would people think? 

I had a very attractive friend at the University.  She was totally blind.  She taught Russian at the U.  Very bright.  Very desirable.  We dated casually and we might have actually made a serious go at a romance except that her long time boy friend came back into the picture.  He was an intern at the University hospital.  She told me that he'd become very involved in his work and had not called her in months.  Suddenly here he was, back in her life.  Later she told me that it had not worked out.  Seems that he always came to her apartment.  He never took her out.  But she was sure that once he was not so busy he would pay her more attention.  Instead, he married a nurse with whom he had no problem in parading around town. 

This story was not isolated.  Each case was a little different, but the bottom line was that men, blind or sighted see themselves as being judged by the women they keep. 

I have seen blind men taken under the wing of domineering sighted women, I've known blind women dominated by sighted men.  I've also seen blind couples struggle with the question of whether they might have "done better" in the partner they were stuck with.  .  Mating is a complex thing.  But blind men seem to have an easier time.  I think I already said that, so it's time to stop. 

 

Carl Jarvis

----- Original Message -----

From: Miriam Vieni

To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'

Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:14 AM

Subject: RE: Protect us from toxic comments about our sexual abilities!

I suspect the advice works well in a gathering of sighted and blind people
in which the sighted people are comfortable being around blind people as in
socializing of people who work for agencies for the blind or at ACB
conventions and less well in situations like singles' bars where everyone is
sighted and people have less comfort with blind people. And young,
reasonably attractive blind men, in my experience, have always been able to
more easily find sighted female partners. The dynamic is different for young
blind women. They can if they're especially pretty. But at times, the
sighted men whom they attract, have other difficulties.

Miriam     

-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of ted chittenden
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:39 AM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: Re: Protect us from toxic comments about our sexual abilities!

Carl:
Your advice works well in places where outside audio (such as a live disc
jockey or band or a jukebox) do not hamper hearing what others say. My
experience tells me, however, that most (though not all) singles hangouts
include loud and distracting additional audio.
--
Ted Chittenden

Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
Miriam,
That strikes me as really cool.  I guess it doesn't matter what was in the
mind of the photographer at the time, the fact is that you and Fred go on
living forever, somewhere.  together.  -

Carl Jarvis---- Original Message -----
  From: Miriam Vieni
  To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
  Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 2:04 PM
  Subject: RE: Protect us from toxic comments about our sexual abilities!


  The description of the book and its pictures, reminded me that many years
  ago, a photographer came to our home to take photographs which supposedly
  had the theme of love between blind people. My husband, who had all kinds
of
  contacts because of his work, had apparently been contacted by this woman
  and had agreed to the photographs. I can't imagine why. All I remember was
  that we were photographed on our bed, completely clothed, gently
embracing,
  but doing nothing erotic. This had to have happened in the late 60's or
  early 70's. Many many years later, somewhere after 2001, I received a
phone
  call from a former acquaintance who had moved back to Manhattan and who
was
  calling me to say that she'd seen photographs of Fred and me in a
  photographic display in a museum. I can't imagine what the photographs
were
  supposed to be depicting and I also can't imagine why I ever agreed to
them
  except that I trusted Fred's judgment.

  Miriam

  ________________________________

  From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
  [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
  Bailey
  Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 2:13 PM
  To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
  Subject: Re: Protect us from toxic comments about our sexual abilities!


  That reminds me of something. I have mentioned here before that I once
  worked as a sales clerk in a porn shop for a time. Being a porn shop there
  were racks along the wall that contained numerous picture books. I suppose
  you can guess what kind of pictures they contained. Each one had a
different
  theme. One of them had the theme of blindness. On the cover there was a
  picture of a blind man and a blind woman standing on the street talking to
  each other. They both had white canes. I don't know if they were really
  blind or not. A lot of these picture books obviously did not picture what
  they purported to picture. For example, the one that showed sixteenth
  century pirates having a pirate orgy did not, I am sure, depict real
  pirates. I can only say that when looking at the interior of the blind
theme
  book I noted which way the eyes were pointed because I was curious about
  whether they really were blind and I can assure you that they looked
blind.
  The cover may have shown them fully dressed with white canes talking on
the
  street, but in the interior of the book the canes were as absent as the
  clothing. If they were blind - and again, I think they were - this picture
  book should have dispelled any thought that anyone might have that blind
  people could not have sex. They were not doing anything that the people in
  the other picture books were not doing, but there was something of a
  difference. That difference was that their eyes did not focus on one
another
  nor on anything in particular. I can assure anyone, though, that they were
  having no problem having sex.

  On 9/16/2012 11:58 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:


  Mal, Roger and All Who Came into the World as a result of Sex.

  Because of that pesky Universal Blind Stereotype, I expect to be
  questioned from time to time regarding my ability to do the most basic
  functions.  "How wonderful!  How do you manage to tie your shoelaces?"
  "You people are so brave.  How do you find your way out of your
  house by yourself."
  "You must be able to see a little bit?  I can't believe you could
  find the men's room by yourself.  How do you tell where the urinal is?"
  But when a co-worker, an attractive O&M instructor of several years
  employment at our agency, told me she was planning to go see a movie in
  which a blind couple were shown having sex, because she'd always wondered
if
  we were a able to "do it" like "normal people", I was stopped dead in my
  tracks.  I'd always thought this young woman had a pretty healthy outlook
  regarding her students abilities.  She was a no nonsense instructor,
  insisting that her students could travel independently around the world,
if
  they had to.  But here she was, wondering if we could have sex just like
  sighted people.  I was married, so I didn't make the obvious offer, but I
  have wondered over the years just what other beliefs this woman still has
  regarding the abilities of blind folks.
  And by the way, she is still working at the agency, in a management
  position.

  Carl Jarvis



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Chairman Mal <mailto:chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
  To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
  <mailto:blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
  Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:08 AM
  Subject: Re: Credo Petition Tell the Senate: Protect us from
  untested toxic chemicals!

  Hey Roger,
  Now how would a blind person manage that?  It's off-topic
  but I was having a pizza and some UT student asked me how blind people had
  sex.  His friend was appalled.  I just pointed out to him that a lot of
  people figure out how to do it in the dark.  I also support the petition!