Thursday, September 6, 2012

Sheesh!

Sheesh! 
You guys are hopeless.  Here I am, graciously casting my pearls, and you just keep wallowing in the mud. 
Seriously, if we don't at least try to look outside the box, it will turn out to be our coffin. 
I usually don't like to say this, but I really know all the answers.  But if I lay them out you would find the truth, which is that we will soon be submerged in Ten Thousand Years of Darkness. 
 
Take that, Chuck Norris. 
 
Carl Jarvis
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1 September 2012

Well said, I agree. If yo overtrow the old system the new one will bring upon its own ruling class. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Frank Ventura
Voicemail: 781 492-4262

*Sent from my Mac Book Air*



On Sep 4, 2012, at 8:25 PM, ted chittenden <tchittenden@cox.net> wrote:

Carl:
I'm afraid that I must disagree with you, Bob, and Roger. I am not interested in a complete overthrowing of the system--that just creates a whole new class at the top. I'm not interested in taking away money as a reward--you will not get peoples' best efforts if you do that. What I *am* interested in is making sure that 1) the gap between the wealthiest and the poorest is not so great that it causes hardships and death among the latter group; and 2) it is relatively easy for the poor and middle classes to move into the upper classes.

In other words, if it's revolution that you want, then you can count me out!
--
Ted Chittenden

Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
Just one thought.  We got to this place where money is the measuring stick.
That means we can change it.  No one will convince me that it will happen
all at once through revolution, but it might take lots of revolutions to
finally get there.  But just because we've had money around for thousands of
years is not a reason to believe it can't be changed.

Carl Jarvis
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Miriam Vieni
 To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
 Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:19 PM
 Subject: RE: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1 September 2012


 This is an abstract argument. History is a continuum. We have money. Just
 about the whole world has experienced capitalism in one form or another.
 It's not going to be wiped off the face of the earth by a revolution. It,
or
 its remnants, will keep appearing. So the idea that somehow a society can
 eventually evolve to a classless state after struggle and after
suppressing
 or eliminating class enemies, sounds like a fairy tale, not an achievable
 goal. So we have the reality that is, and people developing in the society
 that is, with the culture that exists. We can continue to have theoretical
 discussions about "what if" but they're exercises of the mind, not
practical
 plans.

 Miriam

 -----Original Message-----
 From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
 [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
 Bailey
 Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:01 PM
 To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1 September 2012

 Personality may be an interplay between the biological and the
 environmental, but it still remains that if certain environmental
conditions
 do not exist then certain personality traits cannot manifest.
 As an example, there are numerous people who are highly interested in
 aviation and manifest that interest by becoming pilots. How many people
had
 the same potential propensities before the airplane was invented and not
 only could not manifest them but also could not even conceive of flying?
 Similarly, there are people who have an overwhelming desire to accumulate
 money. When European settlers first arrived in Australia they tried to
 explain money and wage work to the aborigines. It took a long time to get
 the concept across. It was something that was completely out of their
 experiences. Do you think, though, that there were no personality types
 among the aborigines that would have taken up money accumulation if they
 could only have imagined it?
 On 9/3/2012 10:41 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
They can be manifested. Personality is an interplay of the
biological/neurological and the environmental. It's complex. You can't
explain personality dynamics in simplistic terms. People are not
motivated solely by economic systems.

Miriam

-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of Roger
Loran Bailey
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 9:19 PM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: Re: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1 September 2012

What does it matter if there are biological/neurological influences if
they exist in a situation where they cannot be manifested?
On 9/3/2012 4:58 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
To a point. But there are biological/neurological influences.

Miriam

-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of Roger
Loran Bailey
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:15 PM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: Re: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1 September 2012

Personality development is likely to develop in different ways when
the environment is different though.
On 9/3/2012 12:27 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Because greed can be caused by personality development and emotional
issues, not just by a financial system.

Miriam
________________________________

From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of Roger
Loran Bailey
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 11:50 AM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: Re: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1 September 2012


You are assuming a basis for greed. If the concept of private
property is abolished then how can there be greed?

On 9/3/2012 11:07 AM, Frank Ventura wrote:


Carl, but there will always be a ruling class. We can overthrow the
current ruling class but the greediest among us will put themselves
in that very same position.

Frank Ventura
Email: frank.ventura@littlebreezes.com
Voicemail: 781 492-4262
Imessage: frankmventura@mac.com

*Sent from my Mac Book Air*




On Sep 3, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:


And we're supposed to pick between Tweedle Dee and Tweedle
Dum.  The
very fact that we now have Corporate First Class Citizens and they
can move their money and businesses off-shore, is benefitting the
Ruling Class.  We are not part of the ruling class.  Why would they
care about our needs when things are going so well for them?
My God, even the chickens know that the fox is not in the
hen house
to help them.

Carl Jarvis

----- Original Message -----
From: Claude Everett
<mailto:ceverett@dslextreme.com>
To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
<mailto:blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: [libertyunderground] LUV News Sat 1
September 2012
I still believe that one of the cancers of this
"Republic is the
falseness of the corporate personhood analogy, also the fact that
corporations and individuals can park millions if not trillions of
$$$S funds offshore and not pay taxes on the income derived from
this practice, along with the gigantic Tax loopholes that allow
Corporations which are in the Forbs 500 .  to pay 000.00 in federal,
state and local taxes while sending jobs offshore to maximize
short-term
profits.


Regards,
Claude Everett
"I am opposing a social order in which it is
possible for one man
who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of
hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who
work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched
existence."
Eugene Victor Debs

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