To my dear friend,
I'm sipping my morning coffee and thinking that I'd better hop into the shower before heading off to see several clients.
But I wanted to say that you put your finger on the button. For me, Jesus is the embodiment of all that is good about Mankind. And all that we strive to be. I am pretty sure that the man Jesus walked this Earth, but I no longer believe the myths that have built up around him, anymore than I believe that George Washington chopped down the Cherry Tree and said, "Pop, I did it".
Curious Carl
----- Original Message -----From: Chris CoulterSent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:01 AMSubject: Re: What Conservatives Really WantCarl, you have given me a good mind-stretcher to go with my first cup of coffee on this early morning. You make a good point about the institutional church and organized religion making it necessary to twist facts in order to keep one's self on the road to Heaven. However, as you probably know from your time studying the Bible, especially the Gospels, Jesus didn't call us to be what the organized or corperate church is these days. He called us to follow Him by loving Him and accepting the grace of God. Man created most of the rules that the fundamentalists want us to obey.Chris
On Feb 21, 2011, at 9:19 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Ted,Exactly right. Because religion is Faith Based, and because religion has been a major player in our civilization, we are pretty much locked into religion's influence.When I was a Christian, I picked my "facts" to support my Christian Beliefs. And guess what? As an Agnostic, I select my facts to support my beliefs.But as an Agnostic, I am not so driven to prove my beliefs. Changing my mind is not going to threaten my entry into Heaven. Any religion has as a basic premise the knowledge that it is the True Pathway to Life Eternal. Any deviation could cost you your immortality.And so you must twist facts to fit your particular religion. And you must defend it against all Heretics and Infidels.I must admit that I do not know what causes some Atheists to get so bull headed. They're not going anywhere after this life. But us Agnostics are mostly a laid back bunch of easy going folk.Let the facts prove themselves. We don't need to twist them, just watch them and learn.How does a religious person learn anything new? They are so busy trying to prove an un-provable, that they shut out any hope of new experiences.Carl Jarvis_______________________________________________----- Original Message -----From: ted chittendenSent: Monday, February 21, 2011 7:45 PMSubject: Re: What Conservatives Really WantMiriam,
If I am understanding your question correctly, the answer is "No". In fact, I think that the use of different "facts" by conservatives, whether knowingly or not, is designed to make the argument insoluble.
And I'll add a third point made very clear in the Chris Hedges commentary: many people now believe that truth is based upon on how they feel about any given subject, no matter what the factual information may be. And I am afraid that some religions, particularly those that rely upon spiritual witness for information, are leading people down the road of believing more in what they feel than in on-the-ground facts.
Ted
---- Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
Are those two assertions mutually exclusive?
Miriam
----- Original Message -----
From: "ted chittenden" <tchittenden@cox.net>
To: "Blind Democracy Discussion List" <blind-democracy@octothorp.org>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: What Conservatives Really Want
I agree with everything in this commentary, but there is a glaring omission.
Conservatives do not believe, as liberals do, that 1% of the population has
95% of the wealth. Point that out to them and they will quote "facts"
showing that wealth has risen in all classes. I have written this before,
and I will write it again: When both sides of an argument disagree on basic
facts, it is hard to see how the argument can be peacefully resolved.
Ted
---- Claude Everett <ceverett@dslextreme.com> wrote:
What Conservatives Really Want
Posted on February 19, 2011 by georgelakoff| 3 Comments
-Dedicated to the peaceful protestors in Wisconsin, February 19, 2011
The central issue in our political life is not being discussed. At stake is
the moral basis of American democracy.
The individual issues are all too real: assaults on unions, public
employees, women's rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting
rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting,
and on and on.
Budget deficits are a ruse, as we've seen in Wisconsin, where the Governor
turned a surplus into a deficit by providing corporate tax breaks, and then
used the deficit as a ploy to break the unions, not just in Wisconsin, but
seeking to be the first domino in a nationwide conservative movement.
Deficits can be addressed by raising revenue, plugging tax loopholes,
putting people to work, and developing the economy long-term in all the ways
the President has discussed. But deficits are not what really matters to
conservatives.
Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make
America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of
life.
In the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama accurately described the basis of
American democracy: Empathy - citizens caring for each other, both social
and personal responsibility-acting on that care, and an ethic of excellence.
From these, our freedoms and our way of life follow, as does the role of
government: to protect and empower everyone equally. Protection includes
safety, health, the environment, pensions and empowerment starts with
education and infrastructure. No one can be free without these, and without
a commitment to care and act on that care by one's fellow citizens.
The conservative worldview rejects all of that.
Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social
responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens. That
is, they don't think citizens should help each other. The part of government
they want to cut is not the military (we have 174 bases around the world),
not government subsidies to corporations, not the aspect of government that
fits their worldview. They want to cut the part that helps people. Why?
Because that violates individual responsibility.
But where does that view of individual responsibility alone come from?
The way to understand the conservative moral system is to consider a strict
father family. The father is The Decider, the ultimate moral authority in
the family. His authority must not be challenged. His job is to protect the
family, to support the family (by winning competitions in the marketplace),
and to teach his kids right from wrong by disciplining them physically when
they do wrong. The use of force is necessary and required. Only then will
children develop the internal discipline to become moral beings. And only
with such discipline will they be able to prosper. And what of people who
are not prosperous? They don't have discipline, and without discipline they
cannot be moral, so they deserve their poverty. The good people are hence
the prosperous people. Helping others takes away their discipline, and hence
makes them both unable to prosper on their own and function morally.
The market itself is seen in this way. The slogan, "Let the market decide"
assumes the market itself is The Decider. The market is seen as both natural
(since it is assumed that people naturally seek their self-interest) and
moral (if everyone seeks their own profit, the profit of all will be
maximized by the invisible hand). As the ultimate moral authority, there
should be no power higher than the market that might go against market
values. Thus the government can spend money to protect the market and
promote market values, but should not rule over it either through (1)
regulation, (2) taxation, (3) unions and worker rights, (4) environmental
protection or food safety laws, and (5) tort cases. Moreover, government
should not do public service. The market has service industries for that.
Thus, it would be wrong for the government to provide health care,
education, public broadcasting, public parks, and so on. The very idea of
these things is at odds with the conservative moral system. No one should be
paying for anyone else. It is individual responsibility in all arenas.
Taxation is thus seen as taking money away from those who have earned it and
giving it to people who don't deserve it. Taxation cannot be seen as
providing the necessities of life, a civilized society, and as necessary for
business to prosper.
In conservative family life, the strict father rules. Fathers and husbands
should have control over reproduction; hence, parental and spousal
notification laws and opposition to abortion. In conservative religion, God
is seen as the strict father, the Lord, who rewards and punishes according
to individual responsibility in following his Biblical word.
Above all, the authority of conservatism itself must be maintained. The
country should be ruled by conservative values, and progressive values are
seen as evil. Science should NOT have authority over the market, and so the
science of global warming and evolution must be denied. Facts that are
inconsistent with the authority of conservatism must be ignored or denied or
explained away. To protect and extend conservative values themselves, the
devil's own means can be used against conservatism's immoral enemies,
whether lies, intimidation, torture, or even death, say, for women's
doctors.
Freedom is defined as being your own strict father - with individual not
social responsibility, and without any government authority telling you what
you can and cannot do. To defend that freedom as an individual, you will of
course need a gun.
This is the America that conservatives really want. Budget deficits are
convenient ruses for destroying American democracy and replacing it with
conservative rule in all areas of life.
What is saddest of all is to see Democrats helping them.
Democrats help radical conservatives by accepting the deficit frame and
arguing about what to cut. Even arguing against specific "cuts" is working
within the conservative frame. What is the alternative? Pointing out what
conservatives really want. Point out that there is plenty of money in
America, and in Wisconsin. It is at the top. The disparity in financial
assets is un-American - the top one percent has more financial assets than
the bottom 95 percent. Middle class wages have been flat for 30 years, while
the wealth has floated to the top. This fits the conservative way of life,
but not the American way of life.
Democrats help conservatives by not shouting out loud over and over that it
was conservative values that caused the global economic collapse: lack of
regulation and a greed-is-good ethic.
Democrats also help conservatives by what a friend has called Democratic
Communication Disorder. Republican conservatives have constructed a vast and
effective communication system, with think tanks, framing experts, training
institutes, a system of trained speakers, vast holdings of media, and
booking agents. Eighty percent of the talking heads on tv are conservatives.
Talk matters because language heard over and over changes brains. Democrats
have not built the communication system they need, and many are relatively
clueless about how to frame their deepest values and complex truths.
And Democrats help conservatives when they function as policy wonks -
talking policy without communicating the moral values behind the policies.
They help conservatives when they neglect to remind us that pensions are
deferred payments for work done. "Benefits" are pay for work, not a handout.
Pensions and benefits are arranged by contract. If there is not enough money
for them, it is because the contracted funds have been taken by conservative
officials and given to wealthy people and corporations instead of to the
people who have earned them.
Democrats help conservatives when they use conservative words like
"entitlements" instead of "earnings" and speak of government as providing
"services" instead of "necessities."
Is there hope?
I see it in Wisconsin, where tens of thousands citizens see through the
conservative frames and are willing to flood the streets of their capital to
stand up for their rights. They understand that democracy is about citizens
uniting to take care of each other, about social responsibility as well as
individual responsibility, and about work - not just for your own profit,
but to help create a civilized society. They appreciate their teachers,
nurses, firemen, police, and other public servants. They are flooding the
streets to demand real democracy - the democracy of caring, of social
responsibility, and of excellence, where prosperity is to be shared by those
who work and those who serve.
Regards,Claude Everett
Everyone has a disability, some are more aware of it than others.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our
freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
February 12, 1809-April 15, 1865
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