Sunday, January 6, 2013

fuzz on the brain


If I sounded as though I missed the point, I didn't miss the point.  I just wandered down another path. 
Frankly, I don't know how we will ever turn the corner and teach ourselves to separate the issue from the surrounding fuzz. 
Americans, and perhaps much of the Known World, have become so conditioned by the likes of Madison Avenue that we appear to swallow anything that sounds good, without question. 
When I hear someone say, "Oh, he's a Marxist", or "she had Communistic leanings," my first reaction is to ask, "explain what you mean".  But most people just gobble it up and repeat it at the appropriate times. 
While I am not a linguist, in fact I have a very poor command of the English language, I know enough to spot propaganda when I hear it.  Words twisted just a little this way or that, and the meaning of a subject will be altered.  A person's reputation smeared.  And usually it is because the public is too lazy to bother to investigate.  I don't like it, but I understand that the Establishment is going to hire the most clever word smiths to massage the language so it appears to say one thing without really telling an out and out lie.  That is the job of the Establishment, to stay in Power.  Our job, or at least it should be our job, is to dig until we understand what it is the Establishment is up to.  Maybe we'll agree with it.  But usually we find that we've been led down the Primrose Path. 
So we must constantly be shoving the straw men out of our way as we attempt to get our, and other's brains to dust off the cobwebs and begin processing information again. 
 
It is interesting that rather than working to develop more clarity to the English language, we have become exceptionally clever at turning it into meaningless prattle, while making it sound all wise. 
 
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez

    You make some good points, but I think you missed the one I was making. I was addressing this supposed argument against Marxism that people do not assist others just to assist them without being financially rewarded. This is not arguing against Marxism. It is arguing against some distorted caricature of Marxism. That is a straw man argument. Like I said, if you have a problem with Marxism then criticize Marxism. Do not make up something that has nothing to do with Marxism and criticize that while calling it Marxism. You may as well say that humans will never walk on Mars because we just don't have anything that will drill into the Earth far enough for us to get there.
On 1/5/2013 10:42 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Well said Roger. 
 
What is it that causes us to take the profound teachings of others and create a Dogma around them, or create a Cult and worship them, rather than studying and following the examples set by them? 
 I'm sure that if we all went out and followed the example of Jesus, we'd be better for it.  Instead we build this cult, and worship it, instead of examining what Jesus taught. 
If we actually listened to Marx and Engels and followed their examples, we would not have these phony dictatorships proclaiming to be Communists.  There will always be opportunists who will twist the wise words and works of others, to their own advantage.  But where is it written that we have to believe them just because they say so?  Was Stalin a Communist?  How was he and his government different from Franco's?  Frankly, I have no idea of whether Castro is a Communist or not.  I don't care. 
We are the ones who've attempted to make Castro and Chavez look like Stalin or Franco.  But what I've seen are committed men standing up to the American Empire bully boys.  And why would we believe that they must play by different rules than the International Corporations that are attempting to control them?  Should we all merely put in our four, or eight years fighting the good fight and then retire to our farms...if we still have one?  The corporations are Eternal.  They never sleep, they never die, they never take a holiday.  They are relentless in their service to their Master Greed.  But we point our finger at Chavez and Castro and tell them that they have been in the fight too long?  Or that they aren't behaving like we think Communists should behave? 
This is what happens when we fit people into the dogma we've built up around the teachings of some wise people, and measure folks by our misconceptions.  Sort of like that Universal Blind Stereotype. 
All of the posts we've seen over the past months showing the progress brought about by Chavez and by Castro, and yet we can't step out of our self-proclaimed dogma and see them for what they've accomplished for their people...with the support of most of their people. 
 
Carl Jarvis
 
 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez

     People are, however, quite willing to assist each other for mutual
benefit. Please do not distort Marxism just so that you can call it
dogma. You are completely indulging in straw man arguments when you do that.
On 1/4/2013 7:02 PM, ted chittenden wrote:
> ...and those leaders assisted in their own poisoning in the minds of most Americans. As you probably realize by now, I am not a supporter of revolution or Marxist dogma. And I do believe in the free market system and individualism with provisos, regulations, and oversight. Outside of primitive societies, people are not willing to assist others just to assist others--they want to be rewarded for it financially, which is ultimately why Soviet-styleMarxism failed.
>
> But I digress. Whether or not the U.S. criticizes a dictator is ultimately less important than whether or not a successor has been chosen once the dictator is gone and how satisfied the dictator's subjects are with both the dictator and his/her successor.
> --
> Ted Chittenden
>
> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
> ---- Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
> Ted,
>
> Would you like them to have a kind of royalty? They would then be accused of
> setting up people to take over rather than allowing a democratic process.
> The fact is, that the minds of North Americans have been poisoned against
> them, no matter what they do or don't do.
>
> Miriam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
> [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of ted chittenden
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:13 PM
> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
>
> Two of the biggest reasons that I never liked neither Hugo Chavez nor Fidel
> Castro are precisely because 1) they never knew when to step down; and 2)
> they did not attempt to groom anyone else to take over for them, fearing
> that such a person would oppose them before they wanted to retire. While it
> is true that Mr. Castro has since relinquished authority to his brother,
> that can only be a temporary fix as the brother is almost as old as he is.
> Learning to let go is one of the most important lessons of this life
> (because nothing, including life itself, is permanent), but neither of these
> leftist leaders (and many dictators on the right as well) fail to recognize
> this.
> --
> Ted Chittenden
>
> Every story has at least two sides if not more.
> ---- Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is more bad news.
> Hugo Chavez has been a unifying factor in South American politics.  Is there
> another strong leader waiting in the wings?
>
> Carl Jarvis
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Miriam Vieni
>    To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
>    Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:54 AM
>    Subject: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
>
>
>
>    Lopez reports: "Recently re-elected president has undergone his fourth
>    cancer-related surgery and his health is said to be 'delicate.'"
>
>    Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is being treated for a respiratory
>    deficiency after complications from a severe lung infection weeks after
>    undergoing a cancer-related surgery. (photo: Ariana Cubillos/AP)
>
>
>    Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
>    By Virginia Lopez, Guardian UK
>    04 January 13
>    Recently re-elected president has undergone his fourth cancer-related
>    surgery and his health is said to be 'delicate'
>
>    Senior Venezuelan leaders have gathered in Cuba where Hugo Chávez is
>    recovering from his fourth cancer-related surgery, amid growing
> speculation
>    that the recently re-elected president will be unable to attend the 10
>    January inauguration of his fourth term in power.
>    Diosdado Cabello, the president of the National Assembly, and Chávez's
>    brother Adan, a regional governor, joined the vice-president, Nicolas
>    Maduro, in Havana where Chávez underwent surgery three weeks ago.
>    Maduro described Chávez's health as "delicate" after reporting on New
> Year's
>    Eve that the oil-rich nation's leader had suffered a new complication from
>
> a
>    respiratory infection.
>    On Wednesday night, Jorge Arreaza, the minister of science and technology
>    and Chávez's son-in-law, wrote on Twitter that the president was stable
>    despite his serious condition. "Commander Chávez continues to fight hard,
>    and sends all his love for our fatherland," he wrote.
>    But there have been no official announcements on the president's health,
> and
>    in the absence of any facts Venezuelans are facing growing uncertainty
> over
>    the health of their leader, and the future of their country.
>    The constitution stipulates that if Chávez were unable to take power,
>    presidential elections must be called within 30 days.
>    But Cabello, the current head of the legislative body, has said the
>    constitution leaves room to interpret that the oath into power could be
>    taken at a later time and in an undetermined place. Cabello has repeatedly
>    said that President Chávez is Venezuela's only legitimate leader and that
>    the date of the inauguration can be extended until Chávez is fit to
> govern.
>    On Thursday, the minister for information, Ernesto Villegas, asked
>    Globovision to issue a correction after the TV news channel referred to
>    Maduro as the president in charge.
>    "I would like to remind you that the only president in power of the
>    Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is Hugo Chávez, who won the 7 October
>    election with 8,191,132 votes", Villegas said in a letter to Globovision.
>    In a televised nationwide address before undergoing surgery, Chávez
>    instructed that, according to the constitution, Maduro should take over
>    power if he were unable to govern. He also asked Venezuelans to vote for
>    Maduro when elections were held.
>    Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. Error! Hyperlink reference not
> valid.
>
>    Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is being treated for a respiratory
>    deficiency after complications from a severe lung infection weeks after
>    undergoing a cancer-related surgery. (photo: Ariana Cubillos/AP)
>  
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/03/venezuela-leaders-gather-hugo-ch
>  
> avezhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/03/venezuela-leaders-gather-hug
>    o-chavez
>    Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
>    By Virginia Lopez, Guardian UK
>    04 January 13
>    Recently re-elected president has undergone his fourth cancer-related
>    surgery and his health is said to be 'delicate'
>    enior Venezuelan leaders have gathered in Cuba where Hugo Chávez is
>    recovering from his fourth cancer-related surgery, amid growing
> speculation
>    that the recently re-elected president will be unable to attend the 10
>    January inauguration of his fourth term in power.
>    Diosdado Cabello, the president of the National Assembly, and Chávez's
>    brother Adan, a regional governor, joined the vice-president, Nicolas
>    Maduro, in Havana where Chávez underwent surgery three weeks ago.
>    Maduro described Chávez's health as "delicate" after reporting on New
> Year's
>    Eve that the oil-rich nation's leader had suffered a new complication from
>
> a
>    respiratory infection.
>    On Wednesday night, Jorge Arreaza, the minister of science and technology
>    and Chávez's son-in-law, wrote on Twitter that the president was stable
>    despite his serious condition. "Commander Chávez continues to fight hard,
>    and sends all his love for our fatherland," he wrote.
>    But there have been no official announcements on the president's health,
> and
>    in the absence of any facts Venezuelans are facing growing uncertainty
> over
>    the health of their leader, and the future of their country.
>    The constitution stipulates that if Chávez were unable to take power,
>    presidential elections must be called within 30 days.
>    But Cabello, the current head of the legislative body, has said the
>    constitution leaves room to interpret that the oath into power could be
>    taken at a later time and in an undetermined place. Cabello has repeatedly
>    said that President Chávez is Venezuela's only legitimate leader and that
>    the date of the inauguration can be extended until Chávez is fit to
> govern.
>    On Thursday, the minister for information, Ernesto Villegas, asked
>    Globovision to issue a correction after the TV news channel referred to
>    Maduro as the president in charge.
>    "I would like to remind you that the only president in power of the
>    Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is Hugo Chávez, who won the 7 October
>    election with 8,191,132 votes", Villegas said in a letter to Globovision.
>    In a televised nationwide address before undergoing surgery, Chávez
>    instructed that, according to the constitution, Maduro should take over
>    power if he were unable to govern. He also asked Venezuelans to vote for
>    Maduro when elections were held.
>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    Blind-Democracy mailing list
>    Blind-Democracy@octothorp.org
>    http://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blind-Democracy mailing list
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blind-Democracy mailing list
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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