In the words of Clyde Fletcher Jarvis(my dad), "History is written by the victors".
All "history" must be constantly challenged and re-examined. Once again, my personal problem with the Church is that we are taught that there is an absolute Truth. Therefore we believe that there is an absolute historical truth. But just think of how many ways today's events might be recorded, depending on who wins the current power struggles. And that will become the True History.
For me, there is only one fact that I know is absolutely true, and that is that I am the result of an unbroken line of success stories.
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----From: Miriam VieniSent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:36 PMSubject: RE: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo ChavezTed,
I think that you may be making judgments about how the governments of Cuba
and Venezuela function, that are not supported by fact. I also think it is
inaccurate to compare them to Soviet Communism or any of the eastern
european Communist countries. Remember that everything you think you know
about how these countries function, you have learned from the mainstream
media. Had you been alive when Iran had a Democratic government and the U.S.
and Great Britain were plotting to overthrow it, you would have been told by
our mass media that Iran was on the verge of Communism. You would not have
been told that British Petroleum wanted Great Britain to install a
government that it, British Petroleum, could control. When the U.S.
supported right wing death squads in El Salvador, you were not told that the
business classes in El Salvador wanted to eliminate any chance of losing
power to the majority of citizens who were poor. You were told that there
was a Communist threat in El Salvador. And you may not realize that the U.S.
supported a brutal dictator in Cuba whom Castro overthrew. Had the U.S. been
willing to have open trade relationships with Castro as he wished and had
the U.S. not immediately begun to support the rich people who left Cuba to
come to Florida where they plotted to get their power and money back in
Cuba, Castro could have operated very differently. Now that you can see how
mukch lying and manipulation goes on in the present, you should be able to
look back at some of that history you were taught and begin to re-evaluate
it.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of ted chittenden
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:03 PM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: RE: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
...and those leaders assisted in their own poisoning in the minds of most
Americans. As you probably realize by now, I am not a supporter of
revolution or Marxist dogma. And I do believe in the free market system and
individualism with provisos, regulations, and oversight. Outside of
primitive societies, people are not willing to assist others just to assist
others--they want to be rewarded for it financially, which is ultimately why
Soviet-styleMarxism failed.
But I digress. Whether or not the U.S. criticizes a dictator is ultimately
less important than whether or not a successor has been chosen once the
dictator is gone and how satisfied the dictator's subjects are with both the
dictator and his/her successor.
--
Ted Chittenden
Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@optonline.net> wrote:
Ted,
Would you like them to have a kind of royalty? They would then be accused of
setting up people to take over rather than allowing a democratic process.
The fact is, that the minds of North Americans have been poisoned against
them, no matter what they do or don't do.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounces@octothorp.org] On Behalf Of ted chittenden
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:13 PM
To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
Subject: Re: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
Two of the biggest reasons that I never liked neither Hugo Chavez nor Fidel
Castro are precisely because 1) they never knew when to step down; and 2)
they did not attempt to groom anyone else to take over for them, fearing
that such a person would oppose them before they wanted to retire. While it
is true that Mr. Castro has since relinquished authority to his brother,
that can only be a temporary fix as the brother is almost as old as he is.
Learning to let go is one of the most important lessons of this life
(because nothing, including life itself, is permanent), but neither of these
leftist leaders (and many dictators on the right as well) fail to recognize
this.
--
Ted Chittenden
Every story has at least two sides if not more.
---- Carl Jarvis <carjar82@gmail.com> wrote:
This is more bad news.
Hugo Chavez has been a unifying factor in South American politics. Is there
another strong leader waiting in the wings?
Carl Jarvis
----- Original Message -----
From: Miriam Vieni
To: 'Blind Democracy Discussion List'
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:54 AM
Subject: Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
Lopez reports: "Recently re-elected president has undergone his fourth
cancer-related surgery and his health is said to be 'delicate.'"
Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is being treated for a respiratory
deficiency after complications from a severe lung infection weeks after
undergoing a cancer-related surgery. (photo: Ariana Cubillos/AP)
Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
By Virginia Lopez, Guardian UK
04 January 13
Recently re-elected president has undergone his fourth cancer-related
surgery and his health is said to be 'delicate'
Senior Venezuelan leaders have gathered in Cuba where Hugo Chávez is
recovering from his fourth cancer-related surgery, amid growing
speculation
that the recently re-elected president will be unable to attend the 10
January inauguration of his fourth term in power.
Diosdado Cabello, the president of the National Assembly, and Chávez's
brother Adan, a regional governor, joined the vice-president, Nicolas
Maduro, in Havana where Chávez underwent surgery three weeks ago.
Maduro described Chávez's health as "delicate" after reporting on New
Year's
Eve that the oil-rich nation's leader had suffered a new complication from
a
respiratory infection.
On Wednesday night, Jorge Arreaza, the minister of science and technology
and Chávez's son-in-law, wrote on Twitter that the president was stable
despite his serious condition. "Commander Chávez continues to fight hard,
and sends all his love for our fatherland," he wrote.
But there have been no official announcements on the president's health,
and
in the absence of any facts Venezuelans are facing growing uncertainty
over
the health of their leader, and the future of their country.
The constitution stipulates that if Chávez were unable to take power,
presidential elections must be called within 30 days.
But Cabello, the current head of the legislative body, has said the
constitution leaves room to interpret that the oath into power could be
taken at a later time and in an undetermined place. Cabello has repeatedly
said that President Chávez is Venezuela's only legitimate leader and that
the date of the inauguration can be extended until Chávez is fit to
govern.
On Thursday, the minister for information, Ernesto Villegas, asked
Globovision to issue a correction after the TV news channel referred to
Maduro as the president in charge.
"I would like to remind you that the only president in power of the
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is Hugo Chávez, who won the 7 October
election with 8,191,132 votes", Villegas said in a letter to Globovision.
In a televised nationwide address before undergoing surgery, Chávez
instructed that, according to the constitution, Maduro should take over
power if he were unable to govern. He also asked Venezuelans to vote for
Maduro when elections were held.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. Error! Hyperlink reference not
valid.
Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is being treated for a respiratory
deficiency after complications from a severe lung infection weeks after
undergoing a cancer-related surgery. (photo: Ariana Cubillos/AP)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/03/venezuela-leaders-gather-hugo-ch
avezhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/03/venezuela-leaders-gather-hug
o-chavez
Venezuelan Leaders Gather at Bedside of Hugo Chavez
By Virginia Lopez, Guardian UK
04 January 13
Recently re-elected president has undergone his fourth cancer-related
surgery and his health is said to be 'delicate'
enior Venezuelan leaders have gathered in Cuba where Hugo Chávez is
recovering from his fourth cancer-related surgery, amid growing
speculation
that the recently re-elected president will be unable to attend the 10
January inauguration of his fourth term in power.
Diosdado Cabello, the president of the National Assembly, and Chávez's
brother Adan, a regional governor, joined the vice-president, Nicolas
Maduro, in Havana where Chávez underwent surgery three weeks ago.
Maduro described Chávez's health as "delicate" after reporting on New
Year's
Eve that the oil-rich nation's leader had suffered a new complication from
a
respiratory infection.
On Wednesday night, Jorge Arreaza, the minister of science and technology
and Chávez's son-in-law, wrote on Twitter that the president was stable
despite his serious condition. "Commander Chávez continues to fight hard,
and sends all his love for our fatherland," he wrote.
But there have been no official announcements on the president's health,
and
in the absence of any facts Venezuelans are facing growing uncertainty
over
the health of their leader, and the future of their country.
The constitution stipulates that if Chávez were unable to take power,
presidential elections must be called within 30 days.
But Cabello, the current head of the legislative body, has said the
constitution leaves room to interpret that the oath into power could be
taken at a later time and in an undetermined place. Cabello has repeatedly
said that President Chávez is Venezuela's only legitimate leader and that
the date of the inauguration can be extended until Chávez is fit to
govern.
On Thursday, the minister for information, Ernesto Villegas, asked
Globovision to issue a correction after the TV news channel referred to
Maduro as the president in charge.
"I would like to remind you that the only president in power of the
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is Hugo Chávez, who won the 7 October
election with 8,191,132 votes", Villegas said in a letter to Globovision.
In a televised nationwide address before undergoing surgery, Chávez
instructed that, according to the constitution, Maduro should take over
power if he were unable to govern. He also asked Venezuelans to vote for
Maduro when elections were held.
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